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The Master

Why is that in continuity?

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In an upcoming episode of The Show, I admit to Dan that I've never read The Dark Phoenix Saga. Part of the reason for this is because I hate the idea of the X-Men being in space. They're supposed to be fighting oppression and intolerance on Earth. No part of that screams, "Let's send them into space," in an editorial pitch meeting. Next to Daredevil and Spider-Man, they should be the most grounded characters in the Marvel Universe. Rocketing them off to save the Shi'ar Empire and infusing their bodies with The Phoenix Force actively puts me off of the books, and I wish it had never been done. For me, it adds nothing and takes a lot away.

That said, what are some in-canon things you do no like and lament being there in the first place? We're not talking just comics here. Movies, books, TV shows, radio plays, you name it. If you have an in-continuity bugbear in any medium, name it.

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Stavros   

I'll think of something for this but dude, I'd you take away all non mutant specific stories from X-men they've got very few good ones left. Whedons run is cut in half. I mean, remove all space, magic and asgard and your entire run of New Mutants is about 6 issues at best. 

Then again, I wasn't a fan of the meteor demon in Buffy. 

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Donomark   

There was a story in Robin remember from like 15 years ago. I think it was the Jon Lewis or Bill Willingham run. In it, Tim is visited by a one-eyed Alfred from the future, warning Tim that one of the Bat-Family will become a traitor and he needs to determine who. Eventually Tim deduces that it was the present Alfred putting him through a song and dance routine on the behest of Batman just so Tim could be trusted or some shit. Tim rightfully screams and cusses Batman's head off, before deciding that it was the right thing to do, and that he'd try to become a better Robin.

It's one of the first stories I read as a kid that I thought was abjectly bad. It's never been mentioned or referenced since, but it was so outrageously stupid you just wonder what was the point.

Nightwing Annual #2 tried to retcon that Dick and Babs slept together the night before his wedding. Besides being ruinously contradictory to the Titans comics at the time (Dick was having a nervous breakdown and became a bully, but was creepily devoted to marrying Starfire), it's plainly shipper garbage that tries to keep up this idea of Barbara being too good for Dick.

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Nothing comes to mind more than Spider-Man Original Sin. Norman Osborne knocked up Gwen Stacey. Not only does it screw up Gwen's character but also recontextualizes her entire death. Even worse is later when they had an out to retcon it, they didn't.

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In an upcoming episode of The Show, I admit to Dan that I've never read The Dark Phoenix Saga. Part of the reason for this is because I hate the idea of the X-Men being in space. They're supposed to be fighting oppression and intolerance on Earth. No part of that screams, "Let's send them into space," in an editorial pitch meeting. Next to Daredevil and Spider-Man, they should be the most grounded characters in the Marvel Universe. Rocketing them off to save the Shi'ar Empire and infusing their bodies with The Phoenix Force actively puts me off of the books, and I wish it had never been done. For me, it adds nothing and takes a lot away.

The thing is, they had precedent before Claremont ever came on the book. Back in the silver age, Professor X faked his death to fight an alien invasion. In fact, an alien named Lucifer is responsible for crippling him.

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Donomark   

Nothing comes to mind more than Spider-Man Original Sin. Norman Osborne knocked up Gwen Stacey. Not only does it screw up Gwen's character but also recontextualizes her entire death. Even worse is later when they had an out to retcon it, they didn't.

Sins Past you mean? Yeah JMS (who originally proposed that Peter was the father of the twins) fully intended to retcon it after writing it but it never happened.

I s'pose I should also throw up OMD. Even if you don't like the Spider-Marriage, it's still one of the all time worst stories that ever happened.

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There was a story in Robin remember from like 15 years ago. I think it was the Jon Lewis or Bill Willingham run. In it, Tim is visited by a one-eyed Alfred from the future, warning Tim that one of the Bat-Family will become a traitor and he needs to determine who. Eventually Tim deduces that it was the present Alfred putting him through a song and dance routine on the behest of Batman just so Tim could be trusted or some shit. Tim rightfully screams and cusses Batman's head off, before deciding that it was the right thing to do, and that he'd try to become a better Robin.

It's one of the first stories I read as a kid that I thought was abjectly bad. It's never been mentioned or referenced since, but it was so outrageously stupid you just wonder what was the point.

So, I had to read that to see if it was as bat-shit crazy as you described. And it's even worse. Tim spends two pages being pissed at Batman for the weeks of mind games, for making him question his friends, for pushing his nerves to the edge. Two pages. Never mind the silly concept, there are issues upon issues of story in there. Of Tim coping with being Tim, of not getting to hang out with Alfred and Dick, of reconnecting with his family and Stephanie, of not knowing what to do with himself, of realizing he can't quit, of accepting he's Robin, of bringing himself back into the fold even if he's still upset with Bruce. But no, it's all spaffed on two pages.

That was nuts.

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I s'pose I should also throw up OMD. Even if you don't like the Spider-Marriage, it's still one of the all time worst stories that ever happened.

I think I've softened on my views of OMD.  The story itself isn't the greatest, but I like the run (BND) that spun out of it.  Until #700.  I did not like the Superior Spider-Man run at all.  Could have been a nifty five part story, but went on way too long.  Just took the fun out of the book for me.

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Dan   

The Sentry, and specifically the tortuous retconning that swirled around him. He's been ignored long enough that it's almost like he never happened, but he bugged the shit out of me.

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At the time, I bought into the Marvel / Wizard hype that The Sentry really was a lost creation of Kirby / Lee, and I liked the character for a while. But then Marvel had no idea what to do with him, and he faded away. In fact, I forgot about him until your post. And I read a comic with him, literally, one month ago! It's like his comic book origin has come true: the character time forgot.

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For me, it's probably Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker. I'm probably the biggest Metal Gear mark on these boards outside of Dubs. 4 was what really got me into video games, and just. Peace Walker does nothing for me, really. I mean, yeah, showing Big Boss in the emotional fallout of having to kill The Boss could have been better, but I think that idea could have potentially been done in The Phantom Pain. 

Also, Fallout 4. I have turned on Fallout 4 since it came out, really. Fallout: New Vegas is, without a doubt in the world, in my top 5 video games of all time, so there was no real way for 4 to live up to it. But fuck, man. Bethesda fucked up bad with that game so much

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Rjoyadet   

 I hate the idea of the X-Men being in space. They're supposed to be fighting oppression and intolerance on Earth. No part of that screams, "Let's send them into space," in an editorial pitch meeting.

I like Linkara's theory that they did it because X-Men had a Dr. McCoy and Star Trek had a Dr. McCoy.

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The Killing Joke, if indeed it is still sorta-kinda in continuity. Not so much because of the crippling of Barbara since I generally don't care much for Batman's sidekicks (though what the Joker did to Barbara is absolutely a good reason to hate it), but I intensely dislike the idea of the Joker being a villain that you should sympathize with. And that laugh at the end. Nope, nope, nope.

Edited by You Know Who

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Regarding the laugh, some people believe that's Batman having finally been driven over the edge, then breaking The Joker's neck. Hence the reason the laughing stops so abruptly.

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Rjoyadet   

In Gravity Falls, I was hoping that Quentin Trembley would play an important role during the climax of the saga. Did he?

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Regarding the laugh, some people believe that's Batman having finally been driven over the edge, then breaking The Joker's neck. Hence the reason the laughing stops so abruptly.

I don't like that idea either, but it would mean the story could never be in continuity.

I'm sure there are better examples I can think of, but The Killing Joke came to mind quickly because I recently listened to Batgirl to Oracle's two-part look at.

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Dread   

Regarding the laugh, some people believe that's Batman having finally been driven over the edge, then breaking The Joker's neck. Hence the reason the laughing stops so abruptly.

I don't like that idea either, but it would mean the story could never be in continuity.

I'm sure there are better examples I can think of, but The Killing Joke came to mind quickly because I recently listened to Batgirl to Oracle's two-part look at.

I see it more as a feverish partially real dream of Joker's. What is Joker's real desire and reasoning behind what he does? He's tempting Batman to do the one thing he has sworn not to.

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Donomark   

Regarding the laugh, some people believe that's Batman having finally been driven over the edge, then breaking The Joker's neck. Hence the reason the laughing stops so abruptly.

I don't like that idea either, but it would mean the story could never be in continuity.

I'm sure there are better examples I can think of, but The Killing Joke came to mind quickly because I recently listened to Batgirl to Oracle's two-part look at.

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As much as I like Oracle, I do wish DC had made an effort to make it clear it was set outside of continuity.

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