von_Manteuffel

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About von_Manteuffel

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    The New Guy

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  1. von_Manteuffel

    Alternate Post-Crisis Batman Continuity

    Alternate Post-Crisis Batman Continuity Spoiler Alert! If you haven't read the major Batman titles between Crisis on Infinite Earths and Infinite Crisis and don't want them ruined for you, you ought to leave this thread. For the most part I have been very dissatisfied with the bat books of the last five years. Nearly everything after Infinite Crisis has irked me with only a couple of exceptions. I know I'm about to risk sounding like the fan-boy from Batman: The Brave and the Bold's Legend of the Dark Mite episode, but the Batman of the post-crisis DC continuity should be portrayed as a dark, gritty, urban crime fighter with deep rooted psychological issues. I have no problem with different takes on Batman and the silver age will always hold a special place in my heart, but Grant Morrison's run reads like a science fiction adventure with plots that rely on cheap stunts to stimulate sales. By cheap stunts I mean killing off major characters and then bringing them back from the dead, or claiming they were never dead all along. In Final Crisis we witnessed the death of Bruce Wayne. I don't necessarily have anything against killing off the one and only Bruce Wayne, but if you're going to kill him please have the decency to leave him dead. By retconning that Bruce Wayne was alive and on some sort of magical time traveling adventure only to have him return is a completely dishonoring cop-out, in my opinion. Does that mean that I don't necessarily like killing off characters only to bring them back later? No. In fact, I thought Under the Hood was great. I thought the return of Jason Todd was actually very compelling, but when you do it over and over and over again it just comes off as lazy writing. Stephanie Brown was dead then DC said " Just kidding, she's alive." Dick Grayson was presumed dead in the destruction of Bludhaven, but guess what? He's back. Oliver Queen? Superman? Don't they know how to tell any other story? I'm not saying this is all Grant Morrison's fault, but he was certainly a major contributor. Also if you're going to kill Bruce, why is he dying at the hands of a Superman villain who also happens to be an alien? Where's the final battle with the Joker? Granted they bring Bruce back, but how does the Batman continuity we know and love that's been around since 1987 end? As the result of a side effect of some poorly written Flash story arc. No closure, just an abrupt end. Some people might say that the continuity hasn't ended and that nothing has changed as a result of the DCnU in the world of Batman. But you can't tell me that when character's ages have been retconned and certain characters seem to have never existed. It's a soft reboot, and the post-crisis continuity is gone forever. But all that said, it is still possible for the modern Batman to have a great career. By creating a custom continuity (ignoring certain titles, and altering chronology where need be, such that it does not interfere with the overarching narrative,) the character of Batman can get the love and respect he deserves. I have organized such a continuity and I have decided to share it with you guys on the forum (I have annotated all of my changes to the normal continuity): Batman: Year One by Frank Miller Batman: Shaman by Dennis O'Neil Batman: Prey by Doug Meonch Batman: Gothic by Grant Morrison Batman: Venom by Dennis O'Neil Batman and the Monster Men by Matt Wagner Batman and the Mad Monk by Matt Wagner Batman: The Man Who Laughs Batman: Four of a Kind Batman: The Long Halloween by Jeph Loeb Batman: Haunted Knight by Jeph Loeb Catwoman: When in Rome by Jeph Loeb [All Catwoman books until just before Infinite Crisis will fit into continuity.] Batman: Dark Victory by Jeph Loeb Robin: Year One by Chuck Dixon Tales of the Demon by Dennis O'Neal [Although this book was written in the bronze age of comics, it is still canon for the modern Batman continuity. Optionally, this could be replaced with the BTAS episode: the Demon's Quest, as their plots are nearly identical] Batman: Faces by Matt Wagner Batman: Terror by Doug Moench Batman: Rules of Engagement by Andy Diggle Batgirl: Year One by Chuck Dixon Nightwing: Year One by Chuck Dixon [All Nightwing books until just before Infinite Crisis will fit into continuity.] Batman: Batgirl Batman: The Killing Joke by Alan Moore Batman: A Death in the Family The Many Deaths of the Batman by John Byrne Batman: Arkham Asylum by Grant Morrison Batman: A Lonely Place of Dying by Marv Wolfman Robin: A Hero Reborn by Alan Grant, Chuck Dixon Batman: Son of the Demon by Mike Barr Batman: Bride of the Demon by Mike Barr Batman: Birth of the Demon by Dennis O'Neil Batman: The Last Arkham Batman: Sword of Azrael by Dennis O'Neil Batman: Knightfall Part One - Broken Bat Batman: Knightfall Part Two - Who Rules the Night Batman: Knightfall Part Three - Knightsend Batman/Huntress: A Cry for Blood Black Canary/Oracle/Huntress: Birds of Prey Batman: Contagion by Alan Grant, Chuck Dixon Batman: Legacy by Alan Grant Batman: Cataclysm by Chuck Dixon Batman: No Man's Land - Volume 1 by Bob Gale, Devin Grayson Batman: No Man's Land - Volume 2 by Greg Rucka, Bob Gale Batman: No Man's Land - Volume 3 by Greg Rucka, Kelley Puckett Batman: No Man's Land - Volume 4 by Greg Rucka, Devin Grayson Batman: No Man's Land - Volume 5 by Greg Rucka, Devin Grayson [The Cassandra Cain Batgirl run can also fit into this continuity] Batman: Evolution - New Gotham Volume 1 Batman: Officer Down - New Gotham Volume 2 Mad Love by Paul Dini [This is to replace the poorly written segue for Harley Quinn titled Batman: Harley Quinn. Mike noted in his review of Batman: Harley Quinn that there's nothing that makes it exclusive to the continuity of the DCAU. Since Mad Love is a much better story, I decided to use it. The framing story occurs after Gotham has been rebuilt, whereas the lengthy flashback occurs sometime before Cataclysm. The three Harley Quinn flashback frames shown in NML don't seem to interfere with Mad Love] Bruce Wayne: Murderer? by Ed Brubaker, Chuck Dixon Bruce Wayne: Fugitive - Volume 1 by Ed Brubaker, Chuck Dixon Bruce Wayne: Fugitive - Volume 2 by Ed Brubaker, Chuck Dixon Bruce Wayne: Fugitive - Volume 3 by Ed Brubaker, Greg Rucka Batman: Hush - Volume 1 by Jeph Loeb, Jim Lee Batman: Hush - Volume 2 by Jeph Loeb, Jim Lee Batman: Death and the Maidens by Greg Rucka Batman: War Drums by Bill Willingham, Andersen Gabrych Batman: War Games Act One by Ed Brubaker, Andersen Gabrych Batman: War Games Act Two by Ed Brubaker, Bill Willingham Batman: War Games Act Three by Ed Brubaker, Bill Willingham Batman: Face the Face by James Robinson [This is a necessary title in order to remove any continuity flubs in the final installment] Batman: Detective by Paul Dini, Royal McGraw Batman and Son by Grant Morrison [i moved these three titles (FtF, Detectve, Batman&Son) so that they occur before the Under the Hood story arc. They make no references to UTH, so the continuity is undisturbed.] Batman: Under the Hood - Volume 1 by Judd Winick Batman: War Crimes by Anderson Gabrych, Bill Willingham Batman: Under the Hood - Volume 2 by Judd Winick The Dark Knight Returns by Frank Miller [With this book we finally get the concluding battle between Batman and the Joker, as well as a proper ending with the closure necessary to say goodbye to Batman. The saga thereby ends with the same vision in which it was created. At the beginning of this book Bruce laments Jason Todd and one can infer that Todd was the reason that Bruce retired] In this continuity, by the end of UTH Bruce has lost Dick Grayson (presumed dead), the city of Bludhaven, majority control over Wayne Tech, Stephanie Brown (dead), seemingly his recently acquainted son Damian (presumed dead), as well as Jason Todd (dead) for the second time. What's worse is that Batman found himself being forced into breaking his cardinal rule of not killing. He didn't just kill anybody, but his adopted son, who he failed years before and had to watch die for the second time. Realizing that things have only gotten worse since he became Batman, he finally hangs up the cape and cowl and goes into seclusion for the next 10 years. Tragic? Yes, but honestly how do you think the career of Batman would realistically end? What you guys think of this? Are there any books you would add or remove from this list? I'm sorry if I offended any Grant Morrison fans. He isn't all bad.