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JackFetch

Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

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It was an origin movie. I wouldn't expect him in it. Then they go right to putting him in the sequel along with 20 other characters. This sounds like a clown car of DC characters.

As for Superman, there have been what 6 modern movies? Out of those six they have had Lex in 4 of those, and Zod in 2. He has so many great villains, but most people only know of two since they only want to reuse the same ones. Where is Braniac, Metallo, or Parasite?

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I think it's a damned good idea for Luthor to be there. Especially if Bruce Wayne is.

I'm cautiously optimistic because I try not to jump to conclusions on casting news not having read a script or talked to the director about the direction the film will take, but maybe that's just me. No, judging by the geek community, it is just me.

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I like it. Isaacs is Isaacs. As for Eisenberg, I like the idea of a younger Luthor, a genius savant who might have started as a tech start and then went multinational from there.

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I was hoping for a Luthor free Superman movie for once.

IMO, Lex Luthor has never been in a live-action Superman movie before. We've had Lex LuthER, Evil Real Estate Agent, but never the actual villain from the comics. The closest we've ever had was Spacey in Superman Returns.

Furthermore, we can't keep using the argument of "the Chris Reeve films did X thirty years ago, so we can't do it now." Very few people under the age of 25 have even seen the Reeve Superman films; they literally do not know who Lex Luthor is unless they saw him in one of the animated shows or in Smallville. If this is a new continuity, it'd be incredibly stupid not to establish one of the main Superman characters—scratch that, main DC characters—by the second movie.

I like Eisenberg, though I will admit that I need to be sold on him as Lex a little. Irons I am so incredibly down with.

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Every Luthor we've seen on the big screen, including Robert Vaughn's Ross Webster -- because, let's be honest, that was meant to be Lex -- has been an outward villain. What we need now is a businessman with a crystal clear vision for the world, one who has the money, power, and connections to make The World of Tomorrow happen. That's going to be a young tech genius with a cult-like following; think Steve Jobs if Apple is what it is now but 30 years ago. Add in the fact that this godlike alien carelessly destroyed one of the biggest cities in America -- the city Luthor calls home, mind you -- and Lex will have an honest bone to pick with Superman.

If WB plays their cards right, they can make something very good come of the destruction of Metropolis, which many audience members did not like. They can make it the backbone of Lex Luthor's mistrust and hatred of Superman and all superbeings, and will fuel his desire to bring them down. In turn, that will make him not so much a villain, but more of a complex character who honestly believes his actions -- no matter how horrific they become -- are just because these self-appointed heroes are walking time bombs.

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Eisenberg must have impressed the hell out of them because I can't imagine someone saying "You know who'd be a good Lex Luthor?" and coming up with him. But I don't know how casting works so whatever, that could not be the case. Cautiously optimistic for now since pretty much all of them have been well cast up to now.

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Here's a thought: do you think that maybe everyone of these heroes and Luthor are coming together to stop Superman?

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If WB plays their cards right, they can make something very good come of the destruction of Metropolis, which many audience members did not like.

David Goyer kept saying in interviews immediately after MOS's release that he was surprised at how many people legitimately thought that the destruction of Metropolis was "a mistake," as if Goyer/Nolan/Snyder didn't realize what they were doing. He's implied that the fallout is going to be a big deal in the future.

Here's a thought: do you think that maybe everyone of these heroes and Luthor are coming together to stop Superman?

That's been my assumption from day one of the announcement. It makes perfect sense that no one outside of Lois Lane and maybe some in the US military would trust Superman at all. The way they introduced the Batman reveal at SDCC basically treated Batman like the villain of the movie. Batman is to Man of Steel 2 what the Joker was to The Dark Knight. Of course, a lot of other comments since then (Batman being "older and wiser") have made that seem less likely, but it's a possibility.

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I don't buy the complaint about the destruction in relation to The Avengers being any better, but Lane's infatuation with the guy who helped cause one of history's greatest tragedies is reprehensible. I hope there's a bunch of heroes trying to kick Superman's ass in the sequel, but I think it might be too good of an idea for a mainstream superhero film.

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I don't buy the complaint about the destruction in relation to The Avengers being any better, but Lane's infatuation with the guy who helped cause one of history's greatest tragedies is reprehensible.

Wait, what about Avengers?

Also, I don't know about "helped cause." I figure he did what he could, especially given that in Man of Steel he really is just a really strong guy and not the uber-perfect "can figure out any solution to any problem" comics character. Though in S/B, I totally expect other heroes and/or Lex to treat Superman as though he's just as responsible for the destruction as Zod himself.

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There were extended moments in Smallville especially where Superman should have taken Zod somewhere where he wouldn't do damage. Instead he let him lead him to Metropolis and took part in the murder of thousands of people. So, yeah, he helped cause it. He could have done something else other than punch Zod through several building repeatedly.

The Avengers comment is levelled at people who raged on MoS and did memes where Iron Man mocks Superman for killing lots of people hen clearly thousands of people died in the last act of The Avengers too.

Jack mentioned wanting to see a Superman movie without Lex Luthor even though they just made one and it wasn't very good; I would like to see one without Lois Lane because she has always been shit. She was at her WORST in MoS.

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There were extended moments in Smallville especially where Superman should have taken Zod somewhere where he wouldn't do damage. Instead he let him lead him to Metropolis and took part in the murder of thousands of people.

That's not what happened. Superman beat Zod, but the rest of Zod's soldiers showed up and some took Zod away while Superman had to continue fighting. Then they attacked Metropolis.

It is weird how people remember things, or think things happened in this movie that never happened and cite that as reasons they dislike it.

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There were extended moments in Smallville especially where Superman should have taken Zod somewhere where he wouldn't do damage. Instead he let him lead him to Metropolis and took part in the murder of thousands of people. So, yeah, he helped cause it. He could have done something else other than punch Zod through several building repeatedly.

Ah. Yeah, that's true. I tend to give him a little slack in MOS just because he has literally zero experience with super-powered brawls. But yeah, he could have done better.

The Avengers comment is levelled at people who raged on MoS and did memes where Iron Man mocks Superman for killing lots of people hen clearly thousands of people died in the last act of The Avengers too.

That's true, though in Avengers it was at least somewhat contained and only one or two buildings were destroyed instead of about twenty in MOS (some of them skyscrapers). In Avengers I'd say the human losses could have conceivably been in the low hundreds, as opposed to tens of thousands in MOS. Ironically, though, Avengers was the one that (in a small way) actually recognized it as a tragedy, showing memorial happenings in the end montage. MOS just dropped it entirely.

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No none of that is true.

Zod was taken out in Smallville then the rest of his troops arrived. When they then decided to attack Metropolis Superman came up with an idea that had no involvement of a fist fight with anyone. He was going to the other side of the world because he was the only one who can destroy the Kryptonian terra forming anime tentacle monster and sent the military to attack Zod and friends with basically a phantom zone bomb. That mostly worked except Zod wasn't sucked up so they had a fight that really wasn't that bad. Most of the damage in Metropolis happened before Superman got there. I saw the movie after hearing all the bitching and really all Superman and Zod did was punch each other through a handful of windows.

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There were extended moments in Smallville especially where Superman should have taken Zod somewhere where he wouldn't do damage. Instead he let him lead him to Metropolis and took part in the murder of thousands of people.

That's not what happened. Superman beat Zod, but the rest of Zod's soldiers showed up and some took Zod away while Superman had to continue fighting. Then they attacked Metropolis.

It is weird how people remember things, or think things happened in this movie that never happened and cite that as reasons they dislike it.

No, it's weird how people misread things and get sanctimonious about it. He was led to Metropolis from the attack. While there, he was entirely capable of taking the fight elsewhere. They wanted him. He let the fight continue in Metropolis. That is NOT a Superman action, ESPECIALLY when he was still far more experienced with his powers than any of the other Kryptonians.

Weirdly enough, though the Superman portrayed in the movie is a more modern New 52 brash-type version, he is certainly the kind of Superman that would result from being brought up by Costner's version of Pa Kent, so I will retract my statement about Pa Kent from watching the trailer. It's at least consistent.

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There were extended moments in Smallville especially where Superman should have taken Zod somewhere where he wouldn't do damage. Instead he let him lead him to Metropolis and took part in the murder of thousands of people.

That's not what happened. Superman beat Zod, but the rest of Zod's soldiers showed up and some took Zod away while Superman had to continue fighting. Then they attacked Metropolis.

It is weird how people remember things, or think things happened in this movie that never happened and cite that as reasons they dislike it.

No, it's weird how people misread things and get sanctimonious about it. He was led to Metropolis from the attack. While there, he was entirely capable of taking the fight elsewhere. They wanted him. He let the fight continue in Metropolis. That is NOT a Superman action, ESPECIALLY when he was still far more experienced with his powers than any of the other Kryptonians.

Weirdly enough, though the Superman portrayed in the movie is a more modern New 52 brash-type version, he is certainly the kind of Superman that would result from being brought up by Costner's version of Pa Kent, so I will retract my statement about Pa Kent from watching the trailer. It's at least consistent.

He tried to avoid the fight entirely by sending them all to the Phantom Zone. Zod made it without being sucked in. That caused the fight in Metropolis, After that what was Superman supposed? Run away and just sorta hope Zod followed him and not stick around murdering people while Superman was off in space or wherever twiddling his thumbs?

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Superman PUNCHED Zod through about a dozen skyscrapers killing probably a lot of people in the process. You would think he could have punched him straight up in the ir and brought him down somewhere in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean or the Death Valley or somewhere where 10 million people didn't live. Instead he allowed the fight to continue in a hugely populated city and only decided to kill Zod when he tried to burn a buy to death and not directly after killing thousands of people.

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