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Episode 100

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It's episode 100, baby! The big one we've been working towards for a year and a half is in the books, and we celebrated the occasion by covering all things Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles! In a marathon of epic proportions, Jenny and Mike reviewed all four feature films. Never have they spent so much time discussing one topic, but the Turtles deserve such an honor (even if two of the films should be erased from the collective consciousness). Not only that, but Ian, Kellen, Desmond and D.W. all contributed to the Turtle lovefest. If you ever loved the Turtles, this is the episode you've been waiting for! [ 7:15:27 || 199.0 MB ]

The above is from: http://www.earth-2.net/theshow/episodes/e2ts_100.mp3

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the 1987 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles cartoon sucks

yea sorry i couldn't come up with a more articulate reply to that but yea i really hate that show. as a huge fan of the Mirage TMNT comics (Vol. 1 is my fav comic series right next to Watchmen) i always hated the fact that the version from the cartoon is perceived to be the "real" version of the Turtles when in actuality they are a 180 from how they are really supposed to be portrayed. The 2003 animated series on the other hand is excellent.

I can't wait to hear what you guys have to say about the first movie because it is one of my favorite comic book adapted films.

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I'm going to add bits in as we go along. (Finished!)

- You're welcome for my many token contributions!

- PLEASE bring back the Crappy Sequels columns! I can't find your review of Crow: City of Angels anywhere, but I loved the plot holes and inconsistencies getting pointed out angrily. Which is why I like James' reviews so much!

As a side note, my girlfriend is getting me the original Batman films boxset so hands off Batman and Robin - that's mine to rant about!!! Plus, I feel glad for not paying money for that!

- Cartoon: It was the Technodrome. And it REALLY sounded odd to hear the US theme given the whole Ninja/Hero thing.

- Shredd Media: Des, you didn't mention the Pink Panther?!?!?!? Just kidding, fun seg. That comic with Brits as fish sounds bizarre but conceptually, it sounds great. Oh, and Vanilla Ice on a podcast automatically = 10/10. :happy:

- Turtles #1 - I also thought the Chief was implied to be corrupt but it went nowhere. I agreed with a lot of this in my review, even if mine was a lot more concise! I'm satisfied with my seven rating - it's a good film, but only through excessive geekness (which was your disclaimer at the beginning) is it worth a 5/5. You're wearing geek goggles, Mike, and you're wearing them proudly!!!!

And yes, the claustrophobic joke is the best of the film! Although my sister loved the "I made a funny!" line at the end.

- Kellen - The Next Mutation was GARBAGE - way too Power Rangers in style, which is a bad thing. The other cartoon sounds really good and was probably better than the original one I was hooked. Might check it out soon-ish.

- Turtles #2 - I don't remember this film at all. I'll buy it!!! Although I don't know about international transit costs.... Anyway, it sounds like a hell of a trainwreck; must've been bad to make Mike drop the C-bomb!

- Dubs returns!!!! And he loves the chery coke!!!! I don't think me or my brother ever got past the dam level on the 1st Turtles game - that was "dam" near impossible!!! :laugh:

- Turtles #3 - And that just sounds confusing! Turtles & Time Travel? Craziness. I never actually saw this one.

- TMNT (CR) - Mine.

- TMNT - Hmm - I really didn't get that Leonardo killed those guys but hey, he could've! Yeah, I really wouldn't be surprised if this was the best of the franchise. It beats the original film and I'll take your word that parts 2 and 3 don't come close.

Des Again!! - Sorry to hear about your friend. And yes, congrats very much to Mike & Jen for this episode; the culmination of a lot of (enjoyable, hopefully!) hard work over the last year and a half. You rule!

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Malpractice: Wow. I've never heard anyone rip on the old cartoon! But I can understand the disdain if you grew up reading the dark comic and then saw the lighthearted cartoon.

Ian: I'll bring back Crappy Sequels someday. They're fun to write, so I don't know why I ever stopped.

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- Shredd Media: Des, you didn't mention the Pink Panther?!?!?!? Just kidding, fun seg.

Thank you sir! I haven't been able to dl it yet. I'm a few hours away from home as my grandmother passed away yesterday. I'm heading home tomorrow to work on a Reel Dread, a Dread Media and prep a new program for recording Skype for an interview.

That comic with Brits as fish sounds bizarre but conceptually, it sounds great.

If you want to read a graphic novel, any graphic novel, whether you like the medium or not, MAUS will move you if you have a soul.

Oh, and Vanilla Ice on a podcast automatically = 10/10. :happy:

Too Cold! Word to your mother, slothian. Word to your mother...

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Alright "Dubs" time to throw down, mock Yu-Gi-Oh all you want (please, I encourage it) but we're gonna throw down over Digimon.

(At the very least, most good anime isn't stuff that is peddled for kids)

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Mike i have to point out a misconception in your Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles review. you keep saying it is based on the cartoon but it is not. The only elements used from the cartoon is April being a news reporter (although she did have the antique shop from the comics), the turtles bandanas being blue, orange, purple, and red as opposed to just all being red, and the logo at the beginning of the movie. The rest of the movie is taken right out of the comics with the first 12 issues as well as the "Silent Partner", and "Return To New York" storylines.

The director Steve Barron and writer Bobby Herbeck were insistant that they keep the dark and gritty tone of the original Eastman and Laird comics and even got Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman heavily involved in the process. The original cut of the movie was i believe PG-13 but pushing an R rating and that's when the major cuts came into play and it eventually landed a PG rating. Steve Barron and Peter Laird have both talked at length about releasing the unrated cut but apparently New Line is not intrested (why they aren't i will never understand).

Some of the cut footage included an extended farm sequence which delved more into the training and how the turtles are dealing with losing splinter and it should be noted that this is where Michaelangelo goes crazy and from what i have heard from people who have seen it is that it is an extremly powerful scene. Also Casey has an introduction scene which sounds totally badass, April has a lot more screentime, more scenes with Shredder beating the shit out of the kids in foot clan training, and we also learn apparently that Master Tatsu killed Shinsho in that one scene and that the "you're going to be okay" line was ADR'ed in at the last minute, a brief shot of the turtle shells comin out of the water at the beginning of the movie, and even an alternate ending where april tries to sell the idea of the TMNT to Mirage comics. There is probably a lot more too that hasn't even been mentioned. I still hope one day that cut gets release or even just a special edition of the current cut would be awesome.

One thing i am suprised you guys didn't mention is that the first Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles was the highest grossing independent film of all time up until like a year or two ago.

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Dear God.

I don't think I'll ever get around to listening to this in its entirety. I think the longest podcast I’ve ever listened to was around 3.5 hours. Still, I’ll probably download it regardless, maybe listening to sections at a time. The 7 hour length is rather daunting though.

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To answer your question about why Secret Of The Ooze dosen't have Bebop and Rocksteady in it is because Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman didn't want them in there and fought tooth and nail to make sure they weren't used. It's of my opinion though that Tokka, and Rahzar and Bebop and Rocksteady are all completly stupid and useless characters but that's just my 2 cents. But back to the topic at hand, Why exactly they didn't want to use them i don't know but i would say that it's because Eastman and Laird wanted to seperate the movies from the cartoon but unfourtanetly they weren't really involved in the movie past some early pre production meetings.

Just thinking about Secret Of The Ooze hurts my head but to be fair it makes sense that the franchise took this direction especially so quick. The first film was extremly successful and you had a group of young producers who were all pretty new to hollywood and were all coming off their first successful film so it made sense that they saw dollar signs in their eyes and just ran with it and not to mention that this was at the height of the turtles popularity. Also new director Michael Pressman while not exactly a bad director was not familar with the comics and i think only knew the property as a cartoon and video game and basically just did what he was told which was to "keep it cartoony" as opposed to Steve Barron who was a huge fan of the comics and made a conscious decision to not make it like the cartoon and also had the creators input all along the way. Not saying that this is an excuse but if you really think about it, it makes perfect sense.

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Mike i have to point out a misconception in your Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles review. you keep saying it is based on the cartoon but it is not. The only elements used from the cartoon is April being a news reporter (although she did have the antique shop from the comics), the turtles bandanas being blue, orange, purple, and red as opposed to just all being red, and the logo at the beginning of the movie. The rest of the movie is taken right out of the comics with the first 12 issues as well as the "Silent Partner", and "Return To New York" storylines.

I'm not sure I said the movie was based on the cartoon; if I recall, I said it was produced after the cartoon and I would like to have seen (and would still like to see) the cartoon continuity brought into movie continuity (at least in the form of a nod or two). If you can provide a direct quote (noting the time at which I said it, please) of me saying the movie was based on the cartoon I'd appreciate it, 'cause I honestly don't remember saying that. Then again, this week has been a blur.

One thing i am suprised you guys didn't mention is that the first Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles was the highest grossing independent film of all time up until like a year or two ago.

That factoid was in the back of my head during recording and I almost mentioned it, but I wasn't sure of its validity. So it was left unsaid.

Dear God.

I don't think I'll ever get around to listening to this in its entirety. I think the longest podcast I’ve ever listened to was around 3.5 hours. Still, I’ll probably download it regardless, maybe listening to sections at a time. The 7 hour length is rather daunting though.

That's the exact reason I'm hesitant to put 101 out this upcoming week. Listeners will need at least a week to go through 100, and I don't want to hit them with another long episode right away.

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To answer your question about why Secret Of The Ooze dosen't have Bebop and Rocksteady in it is because Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman didn't want them in there and fought tooth and nail to make sure they weren't used.

Interesting. Nevertheless, if the filmmakers were going to include two mutated animals as villains, why not go with the familiar? Especially considering what you said in the quote below.

Just thinking about Secret Of The Ooze hurts my head but to be fair it makes sense that the franchise took this direction especially so quick. The first film was extremly successful and you had a group of young producers who were all pretty new to hollywood and were all coming off their first successful film so it made sense that they saw dollar signs in their eyes and just ran with it and not to mention that this was at the height of the turtles popularity. Also new director Michael Pressman while not exactly a bad director was not familar with the comics and i think only knew the property as a cartoon and video game and basically just did what he was told which was to "keep it cartoony" as opposed to Steve Barron who was a huge fan of the comics and made a conscious decision to not make it like the cartoon and also had the creators input all along the way. Not saying that this is an excuse but if you really think about it, it makes perfect sense.

If the new director was bent on making the movie like the cartoon, why not use the characters from it?

All that aside, here's what I don't get about part two: if the first movie made them more money than they ever expected, why mess with the formula? Yeah, okay. The cartoon was hugely popular at the time, but obviously fans and critics enjoyed the darker take. There was no reason for them to go from serious to live-action cartoon in the blink of an eye. It's jarring and netted them a terrible film.

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Damn I just finished this monster and it was soooooo worth marathoning it, I've istened non-stop from when I woke up/downloaded this until now 3:20 in the morning, stopping only for a 5-hour work shift, and one hour of anime on YTV.

-Everybody on here has been absolutely spectacular, not just today but in general. Sure there has been some hangups every now and then (just try to listen to episode 1 now, I dare you) but overall this has been worth everything. Special thanks to Mike for sending me a disc of the first seven episodes back in December of 2005 that allowed me to get into the show, enjoy it and be a part of it. Listening to and creating segment for this show are two of my favorite things in my life right now. Can't wait for Episode 101 and I certaintly can't wait for everyone to hear my little project (well, in relation to this episode at least) that's coming soon.

-D.W. thank you for coming out of retirement as it were, I know I made the joke about throwing down, but you know I'm just kidding. Good job on reviewing all the games, don't worry about being vague when doing a whole group of games, I had the same problem doing the Sonic retrospective last year.

-Ian, great work as always, if a little bit out of continuity, no real problem there. Hell even I had some in my segment. Keep up the awesomeness man.

-Des, I'll be straight with you, up till now I hadn't read or listened to any of your segments, the stuff covered in Real Dread and Dread Media just isn't my thing (kinda like anime isn't some peoples thing, right D.W.?) that said I did muchly enjoy Shred Media and the last two on your list made me interested in checking them out, my only gripe is...no love for Feivel? That movie was spectacular.

-Mike, I enjoyed the review as always, but near the end is where it hit home the most, the tone in your voice conveyed to me just how damn passionate you are about this franchise. You love this franchise like a baby, you love this the way I love Gundam SEED or Sonic. You love to see it in its full glory, and you absolutely are crushed to see it fall to crap at points.

-What else can I say, to Mike and Jen, to Ian, James, and DW, to the guys like Cash who are long gone from here, to my friends Christopher, Randy, Jordan, and Steph (coming soon) who personally made my segments better, to anyone who has written an article or contributed on the site for the show or not, you all helped us get here. This is a landmark day for this site and to all of you I personally thank you.

...and this isn't even my site. I wonder how Mike really feels

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If the new director was bent on making the movie like the cartoon, why not use the characters from it?

All that aside, here's what I don't get about part two: if the first movie made them more money than they ever expected, why mess with the formula? Yeah, okay. The cartoon was hugely popular at the time, but obviously fans and critics enjoyed the darker take. There was no reason for them to go from serious to live-action cartoon in the blink of an eye. It's jarring and netted them a terrible film.

hey man i agree with you about continuing the darker take but i think that had more to do with the fact that parents complained about the darker take on things and the violence and the kids responded more positvely to the goofier lighthearted elements of the first movie so they figured it would be easier to just cut all that serious stuff out. Also the producers i believe were not keen on the darker take to begin with but were willing to let Barron run with it. And as i said if it wasn't for Eastman and Laird objecting and making sure that they weren't used, Bebop and Rocksteady would of been in the movie since those were the characters they intended to use but they had no other choice.

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-Mike, I enjoyed the review as always, but near the end is where it hit home the most, the tone in your voice conveyed to me just how damn passionate you are about this franchise. You love this franchise like a baby, you love this the way I love Gundam SEED or Sonic. You love to see it in its full glory, and you absolutely are crushed to see it fall to crap at points.

That was just one of those inspired moments. I hadn't planned on saying it or anything to end the last segment. The words simply fell out of my mouth with love and honesty, and I hope it showed.

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well i think that's it for me tonight. i still got 3 hours to go on this podcast that i will save for tomorrow. i can't wait to hear you guys tear Turtles 3 a new asshole lol

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hey man i agree with you about continuing the darker take but i think that had more to do with the fact that parents complained about the darker take on things and the violence and the kids responded more positvely to the goofier lighthearted elements of the first movie so they figured it would be easier to just cut all that serious stuff out.

All they really had to do for the second film (at least in the way of appeasing parents) was tone down the language. The violence in the first wasn't over the top; it wasn't as bad as, say, Hard to Kill (which was also released in 1990).

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One thing i am suprised you guys didn't mention is that the first Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles was the highest grossing independent film of all time up until like a year or two ago.

That factoid was in the back of my head during recording and I almost mentioned it, but I wasn't sure of its validity. So it was left unsaid.

Dear God.

I don't think I'll ever get around to listening to this in its entirety. I think the longest podcast I’ve ever listened to was around 3.5 hours. Still, I’ll probably download it regardless, maybe listening to sections at a time. The 7 hour length is rather daunting though.

That's the exact reason I'm hesitant to put 101 out this upcoming week. Listeners will need at least a week to go through 100, and I don't want to hit them with another long episode right away.

Not to blow my own trumpet too much, but I imparted that small tidbit in my review during Ep. 94!!! Still, for karma-based balance, that seg also contains my review of Ghost Rider, where I fucked up slightly!! :blush:

And yeah, I'd hold off on 101 for a week. That way I can get round to adding my geeky list noe that my exams are all finished. Heck, even if I'm too late, this ep is huge enough to justify a slight break in production!!

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Not to blow my own trumpet too much, but I imparted that small tidbit in my review during Ep. 94!!!

That's probably why it was fresh in my head.

Here's an e-mail I just received in regards to Bebop and Rocksteady not being in Turtles 2:

... as you might know Rocksteady and Bebop were created for the cartoon. So it is rumored that when New Line got the TMNT property, they got access to all the characters from the comic. Which Rocksteady and Bebop weren't in. So it is rumored that the above reason is why they were not in in TMNT 2.

Their Wiki page seems to confirm the e-mail and what Malpractice wrote earlier:

Bebop and Rocksteady were the creations of Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird whilst co-developing the background behind the original animated series. Both hated the toning down of the characters by the second season and refused to use the goofier versions in the second movie, which the studios insisted on. This is why Tokka and Rahzar were used instead.

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I have to give you guys credit because if this was my review of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 & 3 it would of lasted all of 5 minutes in total but it's cool that you guys stuck it out and went through the whole movie for both of them. i salute you because that's not an easy task.

I have to agree with Mike that Turtles 3 is better than Turtles 2 although that's not saying much. Turtles 3 had Elias Koteas and a couple of good fights which is more than Turtles 2 had with it's 0% redeeming qualities. It's still a horrible film nonetheless. It's good to know that both 2, 3 and The Next Mutation are no longer considered part of the TMNT film canon. The timeline is now the 1990 film, certain events from the comics and then TMNT.

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I have to agree with Mike that Turtles 3 is better than Turtles 2 although that's not saying much. Turtles 3 had Elias Koteas and a couple of good fights which is more than Turtles 2 had with it's 0% redeeming qualities.

That's exactly why I gave it a 1 out of 5. Though I see where Jenny was coming from with her score, for my money the fights alone pushed this ahead of Secret of the Ooze.

It's good to know that both 2, 3 and The Next Mutation are no longer considered part of the TMNT film canon. The timeline is now the 1990 film, certain events from the comics and then TMNT.

TMNT actually acknowledges Ooze and Time.

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