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Generally speaking (no spoilers, please), what are some of the things I might hate in an episode of Buffy?

Never seen either, but I do own the Firefly boxset. Got it for a low price at Best Buy, so I had to grab it.

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Never seen either, but I do own the Firefly boxset. Got it for a low price at Best Buy, so I had to grab it.

I'm gonna cover this series at some point, but seriously, Mike, do yourself a favor. Log off right now and start watching it. I'm still pissed at Fox for mishandling this show.

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Generally speaking (no spoilers, please), what are some of the things I might hate in an episode of Buffy?

I think stuff like how Sunnydale High School is run, and the body count of students and teachers that no one ever seems to mention again or be suspicious about. There is also some logic, and plot stuff that might grate on your nerves. I could be wrong though.

Firefly on the other hand i think you would definetly dig.

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I watched the movie again the other night with my mom, and when she heard the kryptonite/match book line and she said "Wow that was Bad Ass"

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Generally speaking (no spoilers, please), what are some of the things I might hate in an episode of Buffy?

Never seen either, but I do own the Firefly boxset. Got it for a low price at Best Buy, so I had to grab it.

Buffy is one of those shows that starts out quite formulaic with its monster of the week deal, but it really builds your affection for the characters so that by the time season two is rolling you are really invested. As for season one, be prepared for bad hairdos and the frankly hilarious lack of reaction when supposedly significant characters get bumped off. Its fun and short because its only a half season, and the big bad is great fun, but bear in mind that its a precursor to a lot of modern shows and as such its a little rough initially. Season two is when the real development happens.

As for Firefly- Fucking watch it. Seriously, the episode Out of Gas might be one of the finest things ever put on TV.

Edit: Did I say Out of Gas? I meant Objects in Space. Although I just watched Out of Gas and thats awesome too. Seriously, the more time goes by the more pissed I get that we arn't watching the 4th or 5th season of Firefly right now. This had more potential than ANYTHING I've ever watched.

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Mike, I think you should check out a widely good reviewed episode of Buffy. If you can get into it, you'll probably dig more. I got hooked into the show by an ex. I hated it to start out (for no good reason really) and really turned my feelings around after watching about a season. It's really great writing. Plus you'd love Spike.

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A friend of ours is a diehard Buffy fan, and he's been trying to get us into the show for years now. We'll get there, it just takes time. Thanks to Netflix, however, I expect us to give the show a look real soon.

Why might I like Spike?

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You'd like Spike because of everything you see in his first episode "School Hard" and more. He's anti-authority, hilarious, straight-up bad-ass and scary and yet when he's paired with Dru he's also quite sweet in a sadistic evil kind of way. Those two are the best thing about the show right up until... well, that would be telling.

Not that I don't love Season 1's big bad but Season two takes it up like, all the notches. It makes new notches and goes straight up them.

I don't think its an exaggeration to call Buffy the most significant sci-fi/fantasy tv series thats not Star Trek.

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I don't think its an exaggeration to call Buffy the most significant sci-fi/fantasy tv series thats not Star Trek.

Even over Doctor Who? :shocked:

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Mike, I said you'll dig Spike because you always seem to dig scathing one liners on WFP. Well Spike has a TON of those. Plus yea, he's just awesome. Played by the guy who did the voice of Lex Luthor on Doomsday too.

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I don't think its an exaggeration to call Buffy the most significant sci-fi/fantasy tv series thats not Star Trek.

Even over Doctor Who? :shocked:

Meh, I'm big Who fan but Buffy launched a lot of newer concept series that led to the popularity of modern sci-fi/fantasy shows like Lost and Heroes. Who is a very significant show but large portions of its later runs were godawful. Let us not forget that it was cancelled and off TV for over 16 years, which has led to a slightly less objective analysis of the show as a whole by many old fans. I mean, I spend much of my childhood watching the Sunday re-runs and Jon Pertwee and Tom Baker are icons to me, but from the 5th doctor on it was a bit naff.

Eccleston was fantastic when it was first revived but the last couple of seasons have been very hit or miss. Buffy was also a catalyst for the Dr Who revival along with the X-files, the new series being a response to the increasing number of hybrid US sci-fi/fantasy shows. New Dr Who showrunner has even stated that the new companion should be a "Buffy-style female sidekick…a ‘modern action heroine.’" Plus Torchwood is a blatant rip-off.

I just think that Buffy influenced a huge amount of what modern sci-fi/fantasy TV is, wheras once Who died it pretty much took all TV based british Sci-fi down with it.

I can't speak on the Twilight Zone because I'm not too familiar with much of it, but I tend to regard that as more of a precursor to later sci-fi series than one itself due to the self-contained nature of the stories. It might well be fine stuff but its not a traditional show because its not built around a core cast that it develops over time.

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Hey, all, this is actually my first post (although Mike and James have been putting up with my e-mails over at WFP for about 15 episodes now - and I mean every episode). I just wanted to make a couple comments. First, did anyone else look at the voice actors and wonder whether someone was casting voice or live action? There's some exceptions, but I could see Boreanez playing Jordan (at least a mid 30s Jordan). I can see Harris playing Barry Allen. And Lucy Lawless as an Amazon princess? Could work.

One great piece of writing (and I don't know if this was the script or the comic) was in the Vegas scene. There's a band called Jim's Big Ego that has a song called "The Ballad Of Barry Allen" where it looks at him, not as someone who's really fast, but as someone living in a world that's really slow (incidentally, the frontman from the band, I believe, is Carmine Infantino's nephew). I loved the bit in Vegas that captured this, when Barry said, that he rewired the cold gun "on the way down." when they fell for less than 2 seconds - with the same tone of voice that I'd use to say that I read the paper on the bus on the way to work. That writing and delivery (plus an almost limitless obsession with all things Flash) really gives you an insight into the character in just a few words - smart writing.

Chris (the same one who has time to send all the e-mails to WFP, yet just now got off his butt to register at the forums)

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Thanks for the feedback, Chris.

And now that you mention it, I can almost see David Boreanaz and Neil Patrick Harris playing those roles in a live action film.

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Actually, Justice League got me into Whedon's work - I was looking up JLU voice actors, and found 4 people from this show "Firefly" that I had vaguely remembered hearing about, read about it on Wiki, and it sounded interesting, got it for 20 bucks at Target, and watched most of it on a flight to a job interview out here in the Aloha state - hooked immediately. I liked it so much that when I saw Buffy Season 1 on sale, I picked that up as well - I really like Buffy, but agree, there's more of a suspension of disbelief. Whedon really does a good job of getting you involved with the characters, though, so it's easy to do, especially is seasons 2-3 when Buffy hits its stride. I still like Firefly better, though - I think the show hit its stride right off (of course, if it didn't, we'll never know, will we?). Plus, as a lifelong hard SF fan (Heinlein, Asimov, Niven, Pournelle) - I would say that Firefly is probably the most realistic sci-fi show ever made. I'd love to see how many Robert Heinlein books are on Joss Whedon's shelves - Firefly really hits a lot of classic Heinlein themes (frontiers in space, self-reliance, libertariationism).

Chris

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I know I'm joining this discussion late, but I finished listening to the New Frontier podcast and felt compelled to comment.

But first, let's talk Sin City.

Having not known who Frank Miller was, I remember really enjoying the movie when it first came out. It was funny, ironic, stylish, in the the Kill Bill kind of way. I actually remember thinking Miller must have been brilliant when I came out of the theatre, until I read All-Star Batman & Robin and realized he was either trying to be silly or just plain delusional. Besides his "turn-Batman-into-an-asshole-child-torturer" twist, his portrayal of women have been terrible. Wonder Woman, Black Canary, Selina Kyle...If I did not believe him to be a talented writer, I'd be appalled. But I'm taking it with a grain of salt. I think it was Tim Sale who said he'd want Catwoman in the next Batman film, "But god, I hope not as Frank Miller’s version of her as a prostitute. That’s the worst part of ‘Year One.’ That’s just Frank trying to be outrageous. It didn’t ring remotely true to me.” I feel the same. The shock value just isn't worth it.

Nevertheless, I did enjoy Sin City, having known nothing about the characters or that it was even a comic book before hand. I think The Spirit looks to be made in the same way, with the black and white and the clipped writing, and I'll watch it because it looks cool. In fact, I often wish Nolan's Gotham could feel more like the comics and more like Gotham in general. But I'll save that for your TDK review, boys ;)

Back to New Frontier:

My sister and I laughed really hard when we saw how Batman changed his cowl. Wow. Batman kicking ass: not surprising. Batman swinging his dick around: not surprising. Batman with moon-eyes: LOL.

I was really tentative about the voice of Batman because *gasp*, it's not Conroy, but I got over it quickly. Jeremy Sisto was GREAT. Kind of quiet, kind of deep, kind of mature, kind of smart, kind of psychic. I think it's so funny you guys say Batman is psychic, because I honestly believe DC thinks he is. My only gripe with his voice was that it sounded like "My instincts tell me you AREN'T to be trusted" as opposed to "My instincts tell me you ARE to be trusted." But that's more of a pronunciation thing, and it took little away from the overall effect. I noticed his body was not like the 1939 Bob Kane drawing of him -- he was much too muscular for that, especially the quads. It was fine, as I took everything pseudo-seriously here, considering the style and era of this movie. I didn't even mind that Batman had such little screen time. Though, they really could have put Green Lantern (What? He's white!?) and J'onn on the cover instead.

I also noticed Bruce and Selina in the Mr. Freeze scene for a moment, and they looked really good.

I was most impressed with how Superman had more personality and power in this movie. I rarely watch S:TAS, but when I do, I never felt there was much threat in his "boy scout" character but physical strength. In this movie, the "Thunder Clap" woke me up from my coma. My sister and I looked at each other and said, "Damn. Superman is hot here." Which is rare, because Batman is hot all the time (Youtube: "Batman is Awesome").

I thought Wonder Woman here looked much closer to how I always imagined her as compared to Wonder Woman in JLU.

I had no idea that Doogie Houser was Flash, but he and Flash go together like peanut butter and jelly. I also liked how Flash felt more important than he did in JLU here. Nice change.

Great review guys -- I love listening to how the little things you picked up, like the boy with the IRONS shirt, and I really enjoy hearing about how it REALLY happened in the comics. You guys bring out my inner inner geek, and I love that.

You'd like Spike because of everything you see in his first episode "School Hard" and more. He's anti-authority, hilarious, straight-up bad-ass and scary and yet when he's paired with Dru he's also quite sweet in a sadistic evil kind of way. Those two are the best thing about the show right up until... well, that would be telling.

He also has great chemistry with Buffy in that "I hate you but I love you" kind of way, which makes everytime she kicks his ass interesting ;-) I'm not a huge buffy fan, but I do agree: Spike is awesome.

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Having not known who Frank Miller was, I remember really enjoying the movie when it first came out. It was funny, ironic, stylish, in the the Kill Bill kind of way. I actually remember thinking Miller must have been brilliant when I came out of the theatre, until I read All-Star Batman & Robin and realized he was either trying to be silly or just plain delusional. Besides his "turn-Batman-into-an-asshole-child-torturer" twist, his portrayal of women have been terrible. Wonder Woman, Black Canary, Selina Kyle...If I did not believe him to be a talented writer, I'd be appalled. But I'm taking it with a grain of salt. I think it was Tim Sale who said he'd want Catwoman in the next Batman film, "But god, I hope not as Frank Miller’s version of her as a prostitute. That’s the worst part of ‘Year One.’ That’s just Frank trying to be outrageous. It didn’t ring remotely true to me.” I feel the same. The shock value just isn't worth it.

Frank Miller's modern portrayal of women is abysmal, but his girls in Sin City are very strong. They might be hookers, but they run that city and will destroy anyone who crosses them.

I also noticed Bruce and Selina in the Mr. Freeze scene for a moment, and they looked really good.

That's Captain Cold, not Mr. Freeze.

I thought Wonder Woman here looked much closer to how I always imagined her as compared to Wonder Woman in JLU.

Agreed. Though I like her characterization in JLU, she looks a bit too fragile. In New Frontier, however, she's perfectly sized.

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They might be hookers, but they run that city and will destroy anyone who crosses them.

:laugh: Invinci-hookers!

That's Captain Cold, not Mr. Freeze.

Sorry :blush:

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