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Episode 25

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that is true. the line that superman said to lois in the elevator is true because i heard christopher reeve say that in superman 2 and i enjoy that line. makes me think back when i was a kid watching the superman films

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Except that in "Hereafter" in JL, Superman manages to survive for God knows how many days and nights in a post-cataclysmic Earth under a red sun, AND fashion a blade out of a shank of metal, AND become the leader of a pack of whatever the hell those wolf things were, AND find the destroyed Watchtower, AND defeat those gigantic roach creatures with Vandal Savage without any of the melodramatic whimpering he did in "Solar Power".

Good point that I completely failed to think of. I still maintain, though, that because of his, shall we say, privileged upbringing, Superman under a red sun is a lot weaker than a Kryptonian of similar build who grew up on Krypton, because he hasn't had to push himself. I'll go for the No-Prize here - through the course of the rest of STAS (where the feats just get bigger) and the first 2 seasons of Justice League, Superman had to push himself to the limits of een his yellow-sunlight-enhanced abilities, so by the time "Hereafter" rolls around, he's in much better shape than in "Solar Power" and he's not as winded. That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it. Any day now, I expect to get that No-Prize envelope from Stan Lee, I'll open it up, and read, "Greetings, True Believer! No-Prizes are for Marvel - Superman is DC. Excelsior!" (I don't really know what Excelsior means, but it's one of those things Stan Lee always says, so I had to include it.)

Chris

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So wouldn't that mean that 'Hereafter' should be counted off for not maintaining 'Solar Power''s continuity instead of the other way around?

No, because "Solar Power" was drizzling shit, while "Hereafter" was phenomenal. :smile:

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So wouldn't that mean that 'Hereafter' should be counted off for not maintaining 'Solar Power''s continuity instead of the other way around?

You have to remember in "Solar Power" Superman had never experienced the power of the Red Sun, besides the fact that it was powered by Lightner, so he could have changed the intensity of the Sun's power and than decrease it and than increase it, causing Superman to hurt more when he weakens. In "Hereafter" it's a real Red Sun, not being controlled by anything, so his body is able to adjust.

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So wouldn't that mean that 'Hereafter' should be counted off for not maintaining 'Solar Power''s continuity instead of the other way around?

No, because "Solar Power" was drizzling shit, while "Hereafter" was phenomenal. :smile:

Fair enough.

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You have to remember in "Solar Power" Superman had never experienced the power of the Red Sun, besides the fact that it was powered by Lightner, so he could have changed the intensity of the Sun's power and than decrease it and than increase it, causing Superman to hurt more when he weakens. In "Hereafter" it's a real Red Sun, not being controlled by anything, so his body is able to adjust.

See, that's one of the inconsistencies. What does red sunlight do to him? Yellow sunlight fuels his powers, so the longer he's in yellow sunlight, the stronger he gets (which raises the very real question of why Mala and Jax-Ur were able, within the space of a few days, to catch up to 30 years of Kansas sunlight). So does red sunlight actually leech the accumulated yellow sunlight out of his cells and actively reduce his powers, or is it just that the red sunlight means that there's no yellow sunlight, and therefore no recharge available? It seems that the red sun actively reduces his powers, otherwise red sunlight would put him in about the same position as he's in every night.

Plus, a "red sun" is still going to put some light out in the yellow spectrum, whereas Lightner's filter is going to remove all of the yellow. So, the sun in "Hereafter" is going to give him more strength than the filtered sunlight in "Solar Power". Very good point about the difference between filtered and natural red sunlight - this explains it even without giving Lightner more time to tinker with the intensity of the light (and giving more ammunition for criticizing the episode). Of course, I'm just defending this point, not the episode - I think both of the Luminus episodes are doubly disappointing because the framework could have been so solid, and they just fell flat.

Chris

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You have to remember in "Solar Power" Superman had never experienced the power of the Red Sun, besides the fact that it was powered by Lightner, so he could have changed the intensity of the Sun's power and than decrease it and than increase it, causing Superman to hurt more when he weakens. In "Hereafter" it's a real Red Sun, not being controlled by anything, so his body is able to adjust.

See, that's one of the inconsistencies. What does red sunlight do to him? Yellow sunlight fuels his powers, so the longer he's in yellow sunlight, the stronger he gets (which raises the very real question of why Mala and Jax-Ur were able, within the space of a few days, to catch up to 30 years of Kansas sunlight). So does red sunlight actually leech the accumulated yellow sunlight out of his cells and actively reduce his powers, or is it just that the red sunlight means that there's no yellow sunlight, and therefore no recharge available? It seems that the red sun actively reduces his powers, otherwise red sunlight would put him in about the same position as he's in every night.

Plus, a "red sun" is still going to put some light out in the yellow spectrum, whereas Lightner's filter is going to remove all of the yellow. So, the sun in "Hereafter" is going to give him more strength than the filtered sunlight in "Solar Power". Very good point about the difference between filtered and natural red sunlight - this explains it even without giving Lightner more time to tinker with the intensity of the light (and giving more ammunition for criticizing the episode). Of course, I'm just defending this point, not the episode - I think both of the Luminus episodes are doubly disappointing because the framework could have been so solid, and they just fell flat.

Chris

I agree that some kind of explanation needs to be invented, because logically it absolutely should happen the way you describe (much like when the sun went out in Final Night*, way back when), but it's been pretty firmly established for ages that for whatever reason, red sun = immediate loss of powers.

*Yes, that was me admitting that I own that.

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