Ben Weldon

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The show was not on Space tonight. My TV listings seem to say that the show is back next week with "The Almost People". I wish I could watch it now but the internet fairy and I are not really sympatico in that regard... Oy, this is KILLING me.

-Skyler

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I've seen most of them.

Honestly, there isn't much to work with.

This pretty much sums them up. Stay away from the Superman and Wonder Woman one.

The Wonder Woman one has Tori Black in it as WW. That's reason enough to watch it...

It was horrible.

Don't care. Let me repeat: Tori Black :bowdown:

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Could they have done it in a one parter? Probably, but I think the two parter set up the tension for those last two minutes.

And re: said last two minutes.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

Yah, that was pretty much my reaction as well. I was watching happily right up till the last minute, and then... well, I'm sure you can guess. I think my brain started dribbling out of my ears. I haven't been that surprised by this show since Derek Jacobi turned over his broken watch...

As of now, I will fight to the death to defend Moffat as Showrunner.

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I think we can assume by the time of the Orphanage scene in Day of the Moon, Amy has been replaced. So, it more likely than not happened during the three month gap. I'm still not convinced that The Silence are involved in the pregnancy. Actually, even more than that, I think The Silence, for all their bad, were working against whoever took Amy. Think about it: You're planning to replace one of the Doctor's companions. Do you implant a mental suggestion to tell him about the thing you're after, in this case the baby. No, if anything, if you can't outright eliminate it, you sabotage it by bringing it to the attention of the one person who might be able to do something about it. When Amy was abducted, I half think the Silence were tracking down where real Amy's signal was coming from and they were getting ready to go there when the Doctor showed up and decided to slaughter their race. I think it might be a second party taking advantage of a bad situation. That said, it almost makes me sure that Rory is the father since she already would have already been preggers when this all went down.

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You know, for all the talk of gangers being just like humans and the like, The Doctor was pretty quick to straight up murder one that looked like Amy.

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You know, for all the talk of gangers being just like humans and the like, The Doctor was pretty quick to straight up murder one that looked like Amy.

and what was that rubbish about the surviving ganger being stable and undetectable from another human just because he took a ride in the Tardis. Why isn't Amy Ganger a stable Human then?

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I didn't like the episode. If it wasn't for the last ten minutes, people would be shitting all over the two parter, but because of the last ten minutes, it gets a pass. I did like the reveal of the woman being the midwife, as it does make sense, but the two parter overall, was a giant waste of time.

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I didn't like the episode. If it wasn't for the last ten minutes, people would be shitting all over the two parter, but because of the last ten minutes, it gets a pass. I did like the reveal of the woman being the midwife, as it does make sense, but the two parter overall, was a giant waste of time.

Totally agree.

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The more I think about it, yeah, I really wouldn't watch all of these two episodes again, I'd skip right to the end.

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Oh thank goodness. I was afraid I was going to be the only one who didn't care for this episode. I just kept thinking that this whole thing would have been avoided had everyone just not been giant jerks the whole time.

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I didn't like the episode. If it wasn't for the last ten minutes, people would be shitting all over the two parter, but because of the last ten minutes, it gets a pass. I did like the reveal of the woman being the midwife, as it does make sense, but the two parter overall, was a giant waste of time.

Totally agree.

I'm actually a little surprised by the negativity, even from Suavestar - phrases like shitting all over and giant waste of time would be more apt for Matthew Graham's past story (Fear Her, where wax crayons are scary) or the pirate episode. I compared last week's episode and the likely resolution to the Silurian two-parter from last season, but I much prefered this story. Here's why:

- TWO Eleventh Doctors. I like how it kinda revisited the Rose prejudice of "but he's not you" and showed why that's a shitty viewpoint to take. Ultimately Amy gets the chance to forgive/be forgiven, but I loved the dynamic between Smith & Smith in this episode and how it moved the plot forward.

- The episode played with its own rules by having two ganger Jennifers, rather than having the human character play a part within it.

- There's character growth on both sides, as gangers and humans start to reject the "us vs them" stance that finished part 1. Unlike the jarring inclusion of a child in the pirates episode, I thought the child moment really worked here. And the bitchy human boss, who I'd hoped would die, actually came around by the end.

- Rory didn't die in this one. And that's not me being an apologist either - I'd just assumed that was building to the season twist.

It certainly isn't a flawless story - I think Dubs' criticism is particularly valid - but I also think that the fact that the last 5 minutes tie in to the overall story arc doesn't invalidate the two part story that came before it. In fact, given the reveal about Amy, a lot of the physics regarding humans & gangers was pretty key to explaining part of that angle as they pulled the trigger on the eye-patch lady.

Either way, I've said my piece. I just get mildly annoyed by 2 sentences of dismissal without even properly explaining why.

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Either way, I've said my piece. I just get mildly annoyed by 2 sentences of dismissal without even properly explaining why.

I wonder if that was directed at me :smilewinkgrin:

To me, it felt like they built the episode around the idea of Amy being pregnant and started with that, and when they came up with the idea, they then had to think of a way to use it properly, instead of just throwing it away with time lord logic. Like I said before, I thought the reveal of her being a midwife was great, but that alone won't make me ever watch these two episodes again.

The episode was really just paint by numbers, and did not need to be a two part episode, I think that is my major gripe, the episode was mostly padding, and they drove it along as slow as possible, just to drag the stupid plot over two episodes. When really, they could have met the doppelgänger last week, dealt with the problem, which did not need a second part, and then have the big Amy reveal this week, and have some new fun story happening. By the end of this second part, they were just beating you over the head with the "They are just like us!!" stuff.

It also makes you think about what DDA said, why are the fakes now fine in the real world, when the Doctor dissolves Amy so easily, shouldn't she be fully human now. They could explain this away with him saying he was lying next week, but I doubt they will bother mentioning it again to give a happy ending, that came out of nowhere.

I stand by my statement that people would call this a terrible episode had the last five minutes not have been that shocking reveal. It was good, but it does not justify this story being so long, drawn out and dull the episodes were overall.

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To me, it felt like they built the episode around the idea of Amy being pregnant and started with that, and when they came up with the idea, they then had to think of a way to use it properly, instead of just throwing it away with time lord logic. Like I said before, I thought the reveal of her being a midwife was great, but that alone won't make me ever watch these two episodes again.

That's definitely a part of it. As has been said before, Moffat's seasons are more novel-like and involving of the overarching elements. But without it, it would still have been an examination of humans in a confined situation akin to "Midnight," with the added issue of the gangers.

The episode was really just paint by numbers, and did not need to be a two part episode, I think that is my major gripe, the episode was mostly padding, and they drove it along as slow as possible, just to drag the stupid plot over two episodes. When really, they could have met the doppelgänger last week, dealt with the problem, which did not need a second part, and then have the big Amy reveal this week, and have some new fun story happening. By the end of this second part, they were just beating you over the head with the "They are just like us!!" stuff.

I disagree. You needed the first episode to establish the gangers and then get to know the gangers more personally through the Jennifer ganger. Then you need the second part for the confrontation between the humans and gangers and their views of each other changing. Compressed into one, it would have been hollow and empty.

It also makes you think about what DDA said, why are the fakes now fine in the real world, when the Doctor dissolves Amy so easily, shouldn't she be fully human now. They could explain this away with him saying he was lying next week, but I doubt they will bother mentioning it again to give a happy ending, that came out of nowhere.

We've already seen in the way the Amy ganger acted and how the real Amy reacted when the connection was broken that the Amy ganger and the other gangers aren't exactly the same.

I stand by my statement that people would call this a terrible episode had the last five minutes not have been that shocking reveal. It was good, but it does not justify this story being so long, drawn out and dull the episodes were overall.

I would have still liked it without the reveal. The opening that shows the human attitude toward the gangers, the question of are the gangers people, the wall of eyes, the pile of dying flesh, the building up of Rory...I thought it was very good regardless of the ending.

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Either way, I've said my piece. I just get mildly annoyed by 2 sentences of dismissal without even properly explaining why.

I wonder if that was directed at me :smilewinkgrin:

I as much as namechecked you! But that does count for the chap you were quoting as well.

Chris pretty much said what I would have done, so I'm on Team Johnson!

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The Doctor mentions the difference between the other Gangers and Amy in the episode. The Doctor points out he went to when the flesh technology was brand new. Presumably the Amy one is a far advanced model where that is no longer an issue.

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Okay, yeah. Rewatching it, the implication is that she was still "connected", meaning the ganger Amy never had time to separate and evolve. So it wasn't technically murder. Still doesn't explain why his reaction was "so DIE" instead of going "alright, let's try to figure out where the real you is. I'm sure you being with us during all of this could be at least a tiny bit helpful."

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When the Doctor tells Amy to "push, but only when she tells you to", how does he know there is a "she"?

Also, these two episodes had some of the worst actors I've seen. The girl playing Jennifer was horrendous, and the kid was like a Japanese video game version of a kid. His reactions were exaggerated and didn't always fit what was going on.

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