MaxPower Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 I felt that Shaw was a great villain because he wasn't just generic and saying"Fuck everyone! Grr, hate the world!" He said, that his team was not going to hurt one of their own. What wait? When did he say that? And if he did, how do you explain Darwin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 He wasn't going to hurt anyone, but then Darwin and Havok tried to kill Shaw and the Hellfire Club. Really, Havok got Darwin killed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 Continuity? Who cares. Almost no one, I'm learning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightWing Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 I kind of care. If only because they were deliberately trying to be in continuity the entire time, but failing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dread Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 Hank building Cerebro. Shaw showing up. Hank built the first one and then it got broken. What does Shaw showing up have anything to do with a break in continuity? Really, other than Havok being Cyclops' brother and having a pretty massive age disparity there, I didn't see any problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 Hank built the first one and then it got broken. Did they actually ever state that or is that just something you made up on good faith? What does Shaw showing up have anything to do with a break in continuity? Cause he's kinda dead now. Obviously when they put him in X2, they weren't thinking that they were going to damage the series to the point of necessitating prequels, so it's a minor thing. And really, it's not like continuity was the only problem the movie had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dread Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 Did they actually ever state that or is that just something you made up on good faith? Well, no. That would have been stupid. "I'm going to rebuild that thing Beast made." It's a simple fix. Cause he's kinda dead now. Obviously when they put him in X2, they weren't thinking that they were going to damage the series to the point of necessitating prequels, so it's a minor thing. Dr. Shaw was in X2. Did they ever state he was Sebastian Shaw? Because this character was the character from the comics and that was just a talking head on six seconds of TV. And really, it's not like continuity was the only problem the movie had. Right. never said it was flawless, but it's better than every other X-film. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightWing Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 Hank built the first one and then it got broken. In X2, Stryker tortured Magneto for information on the sub-levels of the X-mansion and Cerebro, because Magneto had helped Charles actually build it. In the end, Magneto is so knowledgable about Cerebro's inner workings that he's able to reconstruct Stryker's makeshift version into a human-killing machine. But in First Class, Erik has nothing at all to do with Cerebro, and leaves before the sub-levels of the mansion even begin construction. There's also some stuff about X1 and Charles saying that he first met Erik when he was seventeen, yet in the credits for First Class, Charles is listed as being 24. In Wolverine and the X3 prologue (both of which are set in a time after First Class), Charles is shown walking. Also in that X3 prologue, he's still partnered with Magneto when he first meets little Jean Grey and brings her to the school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dread Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 Forgot about that. The Cerebro thing, as minor as it is, is out of whack. I could care less about the walking. They've done that 400 times in the comics.b The bottom line is, if fanboys are so stick-up-their-ass about continuity between a light reboot prequel and the films that preceded it, that they can't enjoy what is clearly a fun, well-made and enjoyable film, then there's no hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 Ah, it's been a while since a good ol fashioned quote battle. Well, no. That would have been stupid. "I'm going to rebuild that thing Beast made." It's a simple fix. Sure. Lots of things can be fixed or brushed off, but when you get into the habit of solving a movie's errors for like this, then you're opening a whole new can of worms. Dr. Shaw was in X2. Did they ever state he was Sebastian Shaw? Because this character was the character from the comics and that was just a talking head on six seconds of TV. Yeah, it was an Easter Egg and they weren't using foresight. Like I said, minor. Right. never said it was flawless, but it's better than every other X-film. I can grant you that point, even if the bar isn't exactly high. It's the people that are amazed and act like the movie is the next Batman Begins that confound me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuaveStar Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 I felt that Shaw was a great villain because he wasn't just generic and saying"Fuck everyone! Grr, hate the world!" He said, that his team was not going to hurt one of their own. What wait? When did he say that? And if he did, how do you explain Darwin? In the boat. When he was having a drink, and Magneto showed up and wanting to kill Shaw, and he told one of his sidekicks, we don't kill our own. The way to justify Darwin is, it's believed that people were narrow minded in the 1960's, and Shaw might not have classed Darwin as one of his own. Sorry to anyone if that comes across as racist. The other justification is: He wasn't going to hurt anyone, but then Darwin and Havok tried to kill Shaw and the Hellfire Club. Really, Havok got Darwin killed. As Mike said, he was only being defensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxPower Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 I'll actually buy the racism card, especially in light of his connection with the Nazi's. But then Angel wasn't exactly "arian" was she. But I call bullshit on the defensive argument. He could have done a hundred things with that energy, but he deliberately killed Darwin with. It wasn't a deflected energy burst that killed Darwin, it was a kill shot, with malice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuaveStar Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 But I call bullshit on the defensive argument. He could have done a hundred things with that energy, but he deliberately killed Darwin with. It wasn't a deflected energy burst that killed Darwin, it was a kill shot, with malice. He didn't kill the other mutants before they started doing an attack on him. He wanted them to join him, and Darwin tried to get Shaw killed, and Shaw responded with an eye for an eye. If it wasn't for Darwin, Havok would never have had the chance to take that shot at Shaw, because Angel was in the way, and he would have killed one of the other X-Men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxPower Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 I think it's a long bow to draw that Darwin attacked Shaw, making it an eye for an eye. I just find it hard to buy the idea that Shaw had the purest of intentions for all his fellow mutants.... It's all very Hitler-esq, you're either with me or against me in this mission for a pure, more advanced race. It's why I didn't like Erik taking up Shaw's cause. I'm probably not clearly expressing myself here. I think this was probably one of the really good things about the movie, it really posed a great, very grey area moral dilemma, that allows us to have these types of discussions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elnino14 Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 RE: Killing Darwin - In my opinion Shaw seemed pretty racist, even when he was giving his speech to the young mutants he was talking about how humans hate you and blah blah, and at one point he says "enslave" or "enslaved" and the camera cuts directly to Darwin as if Shaw speaking directly to him. So I could totally see Shaw looking down upon Darwin, who was also the first to speak up, wasn't he? True, Angel wasn't particularly "Aryan" but Angel had gone willingly with his ideals. RE: Magneto taking up "Shaw's" Ideals - Throughout the movie you always had a feeling about how Magneto felt about his powers, about being a mutant, in the end it just really hit home. The whole taking up of ideals is just to show that Magneto has come full circle, in many ways he's become the people he's hated so much, he's moved from victim to oppressor. There is still one key difference between the two, Shaw was much more megalomaniacal, the mutant pro-propaganda he spouted was all just so HE could have more power, you kind of get the feeling that he doesn't really give a shit about other mutants as much as he gives a shit about himself, his power (figuratively, as in not his mutant power), and his ego. On the other hand I feel like Erick really cares about the mutant community. RE CONTINUITY: For my opinion, I really enjoyed the movie, yeah, some of the continuity is irksome, but the movies core of Magento and Erik relationship, along with some strong supporting characters of Beast and Mystique, were pretty ace I felt. I can see how continuity issues pull people out of the story, but I ignored it and enjoyed the movie for what it was, which was a damn fine superhero spectacular. Maybe the best X-men movie, and possibly the best Marvel movie. Definitely the most mature and deepest of all the Marvel films. Now to play with the continuity, on some I provide a solution in how we it can be fix in First Class sequel, and some others it's just explanations. The explanations are purely speculation, and not drawn from the films, but it's fun to think about.: Some of the answers I got are from this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stavros Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 Flaw in plan- Mutants are not radiation-proof. Irritated the shit out of me when he said it, don't know why it took so long for me to bring it up. The only reason they would be is if their mutations had evolved along more general lines to prevent exposure being harmful, outside of absorbers like Shaw or adaptors like Darwin or Wolverine mutants are going to die like everyone else. It's a REALLY shit plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 I'm kinda done debating the merits of this thing since disliking it apparently makes me part of some evil club of cynics and killjoys that's just out to ruin things, but I don't think I've ever seen a movie wherein people have had to bend over backwards this much to come up with solutions to flaws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Robinson Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 I don't think people are being all that uncivil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuaveStar Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 I'm kinda done debating the merits of this thing since disliking it apparently makes me part of some evil club of cynics and killjoys that's just out to ruin things. We also have party hats and have drinks at the manor every Saturday to discuss new ways to ruin things for everyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 I don't think people are being all that uncivil. Des got drunk last night... and he hit me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 Wait. Des... drank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc20willsave Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Des doesn't drink. YOU ARE TEARING ME APART DUBS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dread Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 I'm not here to justify my actions, but I come home froma hard day at work and for dinner, there's a lukewarm box of pizza on the table? "DINNER READY" IS PIZZA?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 But it had the munchkin cheese and the pesto Stromboli dip! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFetch Posted June 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 Just to add to the discussion, some people are calling the movie racist or that it covers up the real racism in the 60s. Now I haven't seen it yet, but I think some people see racism everywhere they go whether it's there or not. I'm also white, so I tend not to look at race as a focal point for every movie set during the civil rights movement. I do know that the X-Men has always been an allegory for discrimination of all kinds, and maybe they didn't want to beat you over the head with it in a summer action movie where it's already part of the story in one form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.