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The Master

The minor annoyances thread

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Yeah, you can all gut me now.

No, I totally agree with you, Hannah: The high incidence of swine flu mortality rates in Mexico IS for a reason. But there are plenty of pockets elsewhere in the world that could experience a similar situation.

Will they? I don't know. Should we be cautious? Yes. Should people be going batshit crazy? Not yet, and probably not at all.

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I'm sorry if you all think I'm an asshole for saying this, but it really isn't my responsibility to pay for someone else's health care. Sorry, but it's not. Period. I'll immediately pay for anything my future family needs because THEY ARE MY FAMILY. THEY are my responsibility. And conversely, why should someone else have to pay for my health care?

So I take it universal health care isn't on your wish list?

Also, face facts: You're ALREADY paying for other people's health care. People on Medicaid, uninsured children in your state as well.

I don't think health care should be a right afforded to only those who can afford it. Conversely, the welfare state needs to be dealt with...

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Yeah, as far as the welfare thing goes, I'm sorry, but people on food stamps eat better than I do. Every day at work, and I do mean EVERY DAY, I see people buying steaks, expensive seafood, and all manner of other garbage with their food stamp cards. PLEASE explain to me how that is fair to those of us who actually pay money for their food.

Oh, and I always love it when I see these same people buying lottery tickets, cigarettes and beer. And tattoos. Many of them have tattoos. So...you can't afford food, but you can shovel money away on skin art? Fuck that noise.

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Let's stay away from debating whether sick children whose parents can't afford chemotherapy shouldn't be anyone's responsibility. Let kids die. Let their parents try and climb out of debt gained over an overblown tiered cost base. The American health care system doesn't work.

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Oh, yeah, because the overflowing hospitals and months-long wait time for procedures in the Canadian system are just the bees' knees.

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I always love it when I see these same people buying lottery tickets, cigarettes and beer. And tattoos. Many of them have tattoos.

Are you fucking kidding me?

Must be nice up on your high horse.

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Yeah, as far as the welfare thing goes, I'm sorry, but people on food stamps eat better than I do. Every day at work, and I do mean EVERY DAY, I see people buying steaks, expensive seafood, and all manner of other garbage with their food stamp cards. PLEASE explain to me how that is fair to those of us who actually pay money for their food.

Oh, and I always love it when I see these same people buying lottery tickets, cigarettes and beer. And tattoos. Many of them have tattoos. So...you can't afford food, but you can shovel money away on skin art? Fuck that noise.

As a person who has family/has lived on food stamps, I can assure you that these people you cite are not the majority. These people are likely scamming the system by incorrectly listing dependents. Some states also have a fucked up way of calculating what your assets are (don't include an owned home/car, etc.).

Again, it needs to be fixed, but I don't think lashing out at the system is necessary. I hate those fuckers who spoil our social programs as much as the next person. But these programs also serve a necessary purpose, as would universal health care. A healthy population is (or should be) a productive, working population.

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Oh, yeah, because the overflowing hospitals and months-long wait time for procedures in the Canadian system are just the bees' knees.

Like any system, that's an exception, not the rule.

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The problem is that health care shouldn't be expensive. It comes down to doctor's training and medical costs being beyond inflated to the point that the average person still needs assistance (usually insurance) just to pay for basic needs. The system is broken at the source, not just the government end.

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Why doesn't everyone watch the Michael Moore movie and feel bad about not being in the UK, or Canada.

Except for dental, for some reason I get raped with dental.

Anyway, the NHS is a great service and it isn't up to me to say America or anywhere should take it on board as I don't live there, I have never been there, i can only give an outsiders perspective and frankly I already look like enough of an idiot when i know what I'm talking about.

Also James, you have to remember that those people don't plan for the future and the one day when the government has to cut their benefits or something bad happens. I know that's a horrible thing to say, but it's the truth most of the time, I mean i'm in my debt, because of me, I'll freely admit that, and me trying to blame anyone else is passing a false buck and I don't want to do that.

But hey, that's just me.

I hope atleast some of that made sense.

Also if I ever have kids, or my nephews or any child needs healthcare, you better fucking believe i would do all i can to help them.

If theirs one thing in this world that I hate it is a child crying, it cuts right through me.

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Oh, yeah, because the overflowing hospitals and months-long wait time for procedures in the Canadian system are just the bees' knees.

Keep talking those points your Republicans are telling you. They aren't telling you the truth about our system because they know you will want it. There are no waits for life-and-death circumstances and minimal waits for any other surgery that isn't cosmetic.

Research before you just spout what someone tells you.

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The problem is that health care shouldn't be expensive. It comes down to doctor's training and medical costs being beyond inflated to the point that the average person still needs assistance (usually insurance) just to pay for basic needs. The system is broken at the source, not just the government end.

Agreed, it's not just the government end, though pharmaceutical lobbyists aren't helping anything.

A large part of the costs passed down to medical consumers (medicine is a business) is the over-use of tests. The "haves" with insurance are tested six ways from Sunday by their doctors because they can be. Too, because their doctors don't want to be sued, leading to yet another reason for high prices:

Malpractice insurance.

It's outrageous.

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In theory, if we could fix the associated costs, we wouldn't need government guidance of the healthcare industry, keeping psychotic libertarians such as myself much, much happier.

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Prescription costs are £4 here in Scotland, and free for under 18's and unemplyed people.

Just thought I'd mention that and you don't need to pay for dental care if your unemployed or under 18.

Everywhere has different health needs and it really needs to be the country that takes the issue and deals with it the way they see fit.

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True. But I think then we'd be getting into some social re-conditioning territory. Human nature is a hard thing to overcome.

Which is why I referred to myself as a 'psychotic' libertarian. :P

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Right, right :happy:

In all seriousness, though, things need to change and they won't until enough people speak up (or enough people see how hard it truly is for those without coverage, can't afford coverage, and can't afford care without coverage).

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What d'you think this is Canada!

I couldn't think of anything funny.

And yet you came up with that.

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The welfare system is broken in both of our countries. It is a hard system to regulate and run to be fair but all it really does is create systemic, generational poverty. Very few kids who see that they can get by without working will want to grow up and excel at something. That is a huge source of despair and hopelessness that will only get worse before it gets better.

Welfare, as it's set up now, is a disabler. It removes human dignity and human drive. I'm all for a welfare system but it is fucked up as it is right now.

There are ways to fix it. Make people work for it. Pick up garbage, clean graffitti, landscape parks. Provide daycare subsidies and get people working for their handout. It will definitely cost more but in the long run I think it would have a positive effect (higher job rate, lower welfare rate).

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It is a hard system to regulate and run to be fair but all it really does is create systemic, generational poverty. Very few kids who see that they can get by without working will want to grow up and excel at something. That is a huge source of despair and hopelessness that will only get worse before it gets better.

Yes and yes. I hear (from my welfare-receiving relatives) that now, if say, a single mother of two gets aid from the state for too long, her children will get LESS aid when they get older. I don't know where my relative got this info, but it's scary stuff (as most adults receiving aid are not about to stop just in case their children need it later--and almost all of them will).

But I think the welfare issue goes hand-in-hand with health care, namely family planning and birth control. Then again, this also relates to education. The people on welfare are less likely to use birth control because they are less likely to have been properly educated about it (in the school or the community or otherwise). Hence more children, hence more welfare paid out, hence a larger burden for a parent to pull themselves out from under, hence the cycle.

Talking about this shit is depressing.

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Provide daycare subsidies and get people working for their handout. .

This gets abused badly here in Chicago. There are people getting checks for watching kids they've never spent 10 minutes with. They simply have to give the parents a cut.

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Yes and yes. I hear (from my welfare-receiving relatives) that now, if say, a single mother of two gets aid from the state for too long, her children will get LESS aid when they get older. I don't know where my relative got this info, but it's scary stuff (as most adults receiving aid are not about to stop just in case their children need it later--and almost all of them will).

But I think the welfare issue goes hand-in-hand with health care, namely family planning and birth control. Then again, this also relates to education. The people on welfare are less likely to use birth control because they are less likely to have been properly educated about it (in the school or the community or otherwise). Hence more children, hence more welfare paid out, hence a larger burden for a parent to pull themselves out from under, hence the cycle.

Talking about this shit is depressing.

It is depressing. They are all tied. Birth control is a major issue. Many of these people will come from cultures where that isn't kosher (not a pun) and others simply can afford Alesse or they can afford tonight's dinner.

Education comes in with life planning in general. If people are taught to assess resources and how to distribute them and budget themselves, then they are more likely to succeed. To be quite generalistic, but I think I'm in the right here, people on welfare and low income people who, arguably, are worse off, are not thinking about next month. They want to pay their rent and eat. Who can blame them.

Take a look at Maslow's hierarchy to see why welfare, education and healthcare aren't working. It's pretty simple. If people are worried about their next meal, how can they be expected to function normally? The answer: they can't. Basic psychology.

On another note: the man beside me talks too damn loud. Especially when he's trying to talk about students who are in the classroom like they can't hear him. They can. It's embarrassing. Seriously, man. Shut up.

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