The Dark Knight Rises

[annericelover]

I'm pretty sure Ra's is dead.

On the subject of tabloids, I also read somewhere that they cast Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Alberto Falcone/The Holiday Killer. Is that true or just another rumor?

Ra's has always been a character that easily averts death time and time again, although in Batman Begins the idea was that he died, there is always a chance of an explanation for his survival. It would be a nice closure to the trilogy if Talia made an appearance because if Ra's started the series it should end with a connection.

When I first heard about Joseph being in the film two characters I thought of was Dick Grayson(which is now a rumor that may come to be true)or more so Albert Falcone, The Long Halloween has played a huge part in the inspiration for this trilogy, so it would make sense to have this character in the film. The film could start with Batman already investigating the Holiday killings and having to avert the police who maybe thinking he's the actual killer.

[dc20willsave]

She's not even really a supervillain. She's just a glorified henchman. (henchwoman? henchperson?... flight attendant?)

Since Batman: Death and the Maidens, she's been more of a villain. While Ra's was dead, she was running the League of Assassins, she was one of the inner circle of the Secret Society during Infinite Crisis, and she kinda put a remote control in her son's spine to make him kill Dick. So yeah, definitely more of a villain as of late.

[You Know Who]

I'm pretty sure Ra's is dead.

Ra's has always been a character that easily averts death time and time again, although in Batman Begins the idea was that he died, there is always a chance of an explanation for his survival. It would be a nice closure to the trilogy if Talia made an appearance because if Ra's started the series it should end with a connection.

Ra's surviving that explosion--whether by jumping out at the right moment or because he's immortal--would go very much against Nolan's vision of Batman in the real world. And though I see your point about launching and tying up the trilogy with the al Ghuls, I think it would work much better had Talia been introduced in Batman Begins along with her father and that Bane would be a much better antagonist to round the series out because he poses a much greater challenge to Batman physically and mentally. Talia, by comparison, is a useless cock-tease.

[KnightWing]

I think that argument only really works if we restrict the possible plot to the imaginary full movie we've got in our heads. I think there's probably a way to do it and have it make sense.

[annericelover]

Ra's surviving that explosion--whether by jumping out at the right moment or because he's immortal--would go very much against Nolan's vision of Batman in the real world. And though I see your point about launching and tying up the trilogy with the al Ghuls, I think it would work much better had Talia been introduced in Batman Begins along with her father and that Bane would be a much better antagonist to round the series out because he poses a much greater challenge to Batman physically and mentally. Talia, by comparison, is a useless cock-tease.

Well come to think of it Ra's makes a mention of how he lost his family years earlier from him joining the League, while he is a mastermind nut, he isn't a liar, that's why I've always like Ra's as a villain, cause he's like Magneto, he really believes he's doing right, he doesn't see himself as a villain, but as a savior. In the comics Talia and Ra's were very close, if she wasn't in the first film, its possible she doesn't exist, the reason I feel strongly that she will play a part in the new film is both because of the title "Rises" signifies that Batman will triumph over an adversary and also because Selena Kyle is now in the film and presents a challenge of the heart.

I am also seeing that Albert Falcone will most likely be in the film and he will help to tie things up(his father Carmine Falcone was put in the mad house, so we have another revenge plot going), plus we have Bane and most likely the Knightfall story, which in itself is a huge story

[MaxPower]

I like the idea of the series ending with Bane, being the most complete challenge to Batman. The Joker is his arch nemesis, but isn't actually an equal.

[You Know Who]

If "Rises" also signifies a challenge of the heart that Bruce will have to face, why do you need Talia when you already have Selina? Why do you need Falcone for that matter when you already have Bane? If you try to tie a third movie directly back to the first one and also throw in a new love interest and a new villain, you get Spider-Man 3. That's why I think Nolan should stay away from Talia and Alberto Falcone.

[dc20willsave]

Ra's surviving that explosion--whether by jumping out at the right moment or because he's immortal--would go very much against Nolan's vision of Batman in the real world. And though I see your point about launching and tying up the trilogy with the al Ghuls, I think it would work much better had Talia been introduced in Batman Begins along with her father and that Bane would be a much better antagonist to round the series out because he poses a much greater challenge to Batman physically and mentally. Talia, by comparison, is a useless cock-tease.

Well come to think of it Ra's makes a mention of how he lost his family years earlier from him joining the League, while he is a mastermind nut, he isn't a liar, that's why I've always like Ra's as a villain, cause he's like Magneto, he really believes he's doing right, he doesn't see himself as a villain, but as a savior. In the comics Talia and Ra's were very close, if she wasn't in the first film, its possible she doesn't exist, the reason I feel strongly that she will play a part in the new film is both because of the title "Rises" signifies that Batman will triumph over an adversary and also because Selena Kyle is now in the film and presents a challenge of the heart.

I am also seeing that Albert Falcone will most likely be in the film and he will help to tie things up(his father Carmine Falcone was put in the mad house, so we have another revenge plot going), plus we have Bane and most likely the Knightfall story, which in itself is a huge story

To reiterate, the Alberto Falcone rumors are coming from tabloids and should be taken with a grain of salt and not treated as reality. Frankly, at this point, I'd rather not see Knightfall mainly because outside of being a kinda shitty story, it's also the product of tons of continuity that wouldn't work in the context of Nolan's greater story. I mean, does anyone want to watch Batman go through months of rehab for is back? No. Regardless of how cerbreal the film gets, we're their to see Batman be awesome. The thing you're all forgetting is that after Bats got his back broken, he didn't rise to defeat Bane. Azrael took over followed by Dick. Really, any speculation about casting or what the plotline is just that: speculation. While Nolan has taken elements from other stories, he's not going to do a straight adaptation. He's going to craft his own story While the movie is going to be the cumulation of the plots of the first two, I doubt he'll just throw in Talia. If they do Talia, there's no reason to do Selina. If anything, Cotillard will probably play an original character, maybe the new DA or Sofia Gigante. Gordon-Levitt, he might not even be a major role. Remember how everyone thought Anthony Michael Hall would be playing The Riddler before the Dark Knight and he ended up playing a rather small role anywat. Reagrdless, there's little use to speculate since whatever you think of, Nolan will probably be shoot it out of the water.

[annericelover]

If "Rises" also signifies a challenge of the heart that Bruce will have to face, why do you need Talia when you already have Selina? Why do you need Falcone for that matter when you already have Bane? If you try to tie a third movie directly back to the first one and also throw in a new love interest and a new villain, you get Spider-Man 3. That's why I think Nolan should stay away from Talia and Alberto Falcone.

I do agree it may be pushing it to add a love story element, but Talia has always tried to make Bruce see the good in the League and has made him question himself, Selena, while she is Catwoman, she really isn't a "bad guy, " she does care for Bruce and Batman, just like Talia does, however, Talia is a bit more of a villain than Selena as she is willing to kill more than Selena.

The Holiday Killer story would serve better if it was started in the first film and slowly developed through the 2nd, like the Phoenix saga did in X-Men(although, their execution in the 3rd film wasn't as good)series. However, it does present a challenge for Bruce as the police force already sees Batman as a killer, so if a new killer was framing him he'd have to clear his name AND avoid the police. So, the "Rises" could also mean that kind of rising.

[You Know Who]

If "Rises" also signifies a challenge of the heart that Bruce will have to face, why do you need Talia when you already have Selina? Why do you need Falcone for that matter when you already have Bane? If you try to tie a third movie directly back to the first one and also throw in a new love interest and a new villain, you get Spider-Man 3. That's why I think Nolan should stay away from Talia and Alberto Falcone.

I do agree it may be pushing it to add a love story element, but Talia has always tried to make Bruce see the good in the League and has made him question himself, Selena, while she is Catwoman, she really isn't a "bad guy, " she does care for Bruce and Batman, just like Talia does, however, Talia is a bit more of a villain than Selena as she is willing to kill more than Selena.

The Holiday Killer story would serve better if it was started in the first film and slowly developed through the 2nd, like the Phoenix saga did in X-Men(although, their execution in the 3rd film wasn't as good)series. However, it does present a challenge for Bruce as the police force already sees Batman as a killer, so if a new killer was framing him he'd have to clear his name AND avoid the police. So, the "Rises" could also mean that kind of rising.

Between posts, I realized they could have Alberto Falcone as a second antagonist, like his father in Batman Begins and Maroni in The Dark Knight. He'd be taking up the family business and trying to fill a power vacuum left by the mob and the Joker from the last film. The Holiday Killer storyline would be a bit too gimmicky and though I have something of a soft spot for The Long Halloween (being the first Batman book I ever read), I have to question why the cops didn't currently predict one of Alberto's killings and apprehend him on Valentine's Day or St. Patrick's Day after murders coinciding with previous holidays.

What you said about Talia vs. Catwoman makes sense, but I wouldn't want to see it coincide with a film featuring Batman vs. Bane. True, Bane could be a member of the League of Shadows and could even be a rival for Talia's affections, but I think Bane would be the kind of person who wouldn't take shit from anyone and wouldn't be a part of any criminal operation he wasn't running himself.

(O, and for the record, I'm kind of ho-hum about all three X-Men films and actually think X3 is more satisfying than the other two action-wise)

[Venneh]

And your sources for knowing what's going to happen in the movie are what?

[You Know Who]

And your sources for knowing what's going to happen in the movie are what?

I said "could", not "will".

[Venneh]

Then stop acting like it's God's given word that it's what's going to happen.

EDIT: Sorry, I'm drunk, but I'm really sick of fan spec being taken as what's actually gonna happen.

[JackFetch]

Earlier today Tom Hardy (Bronson, Inception) appeared on the British talk show "Alan Carr: Chatty Man" and spoke briefly about his upcoming appearance as Bane in The Dark Knight Rises. The video is now available online, thanks to Batman-News.com and is viewable below.

In addition to joking that Bane's look will depart significantly from the way the character appeared in 1997's Batman & Robin, Hardy also revealed that he plans to spent the next three months putting on muscle weight, shooting for a goal of about 200 pounds before he starts production in May.

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=74597#ixzz1Ef36cVlx

[Dread]

Bane breaks Batman.

Levitt's character is Bats' replacement.

[MaxPower]

Bane breaks Batman.

Levitt's character is Bats' replacement.

How would that fit in with the overall story arc Nolan has been creating for this Batman? Not disagreeing, just wondering what you think.

[dc20willsave]

Bane breaks Batman.

Levitt's character is Bats' replacement.

How would that fit in with the overall story arc Nolan has been creating for this Batman? Not disagreeing, just wondering what you think.

I think Des was making a joke.

[Dread]

Someone taking up the mantle for him fits with how he sees Batman at the end of the last film. Gotham needs a Batman as its dark avenger, not a Bruce Wayne.

[Delete]

None of that should happen

[You Know Who]

I agree. How compelling would a superhero stepping down and having someone else do his job be for the end of a franchise?

[slothian]

I agree. How compelling would a superhero stepping down and having someone else do his job be for the end of a franchise?

Theoretically, it would only end Bale/Nolan's franchise involvement and allow the Batman films to progress in a new direction w/ a pre-established lead and maintain something of a continuity. As Des said, Bruce's whole arc has been about sacrificing his happiness to save Gotham. I have no problem with them going that route.

[Aaron Robinson]

It sounds like a lot to accomplish in one movie. As much as I liked The Dark Knight, it felt a little crowded and awkwardly paced. I was kind of hoping for a simpler story this time around, so that it could flesh out the characters a little bit more. I think the idea would work better spaced over two movies.

[You Know Who]

Copy, paste; copy, paste

As for someone else taking up the cape and cowl following the third film, the only person who I accept as Batman apart from Bruce is Terry McGinnis. This applies to the comics too. I could see Bruce being out of commission for a lot of The Dark Knight Rises due to confrontation with Bane or even temporarily quitting like Peter in Spider-Man 2, but to end the film with a new person as Batman would be utterly lame. Also, as the last film showed, people can easily be corrupted in their pursuit of justice, but Bruce Wayne/Batman can't, which is part of why he should continue to do what he does.

As for Batman films after this one, I think Warner Brothers should give the character a rest and focus on other DC characters (if Green Lantern is successful enough to allow them to do so). A Robin/Nightwing trilogy would be nice.

[Venneh]

...So the current Batman storylines are all invalid to you, then?

[You Know Who]

...So the current Batman storylines are all invalid to you, then?

I haven't been following them all that closely, but I think Dick Grayson is better off and is being more of his own man as Nightwing than he is as the next Batman. I did give the idea of him as Batman a try by reading Battle for the Cowl, but that did nothing for me and my distaste for Grant Morrison's stuff prevents me from continuing to read them, even now that Bruce is back.