Who Are the Smartest People in the DCU?

[Dread]

We've got the Marvel thread but I'm actually more interested in the top five in DC. 10 if you want.

Here's what i got:

1. Lex Luthor

2. Will Magnus

3. Mr. Terrific (known fact, that he is on this list at this place)

4. T.O. Morrow

5. Niles Caulder

[SuaveStar]

Ra's should be on the list for working out who Batman is.

[Dread]

ten year old Tim Drake should be on that list for the same reason then.

[SuaveStar]

ten year old Tim Drake should be on that list for the same reason then.

After he worked out Bruce was lost in time through looking at a picture. Yes, he should be on the list.

[Dread]

I'm saying Tim figured out who Batman and Robin were. That's how he became Robin

[Molly]

1.) Lex

2.) Ray Palmer

3.) Mr. Terrific

4.) Doc Magnus

5.) Batman

6.) John Henry Irons

[Dread]

Palmer's in the top 10, but second?

[SuaveStar]

I'm saying Tim figured out who Batman and Robin were. That's how he became Robin

Yeah, he also became Robin because Dick didn't want to be Robin again and he had no choice. Batman was going nuts. Also you didn't say at one point, they had to be the smartest people, and Tim has proven he's one of the smartest people in the DCU

[Molly]

Palmer's in the top 10, but second?

I always read him as nipping at Luthor's heels, I guess I could be wrong.

[Dread]

I'd probably be more willing to put John Henry Irons at 2 than Palmer.

[SuaveStar]

1. Mr Terrific

2. Batman (Bruce)

3. Ra's

4. Tim Drake

5. Will Magnus (he created life)

6. Clark Kent (He's been able to hide his identity from people for years, by simply being human.)

7. Lex Luthor (He's smart, but he's not smart enough to realise that Clark is Superman)

8. Ray Palmer

[Dread]

Terrific is third. That is the only placement that is definite on the list.

Metron's a god. And I'll strike Deathstroke from the list seeing as he's been augmented.

[SuaveStar]

I edited Deathstroke and put in the Joker.

[Dread]

Not a chance.

[Dread]

T.O. Morrow, Niles Caulder, Dr. Sivana. These are people that belong on the list. The Joker, it is even debatable as to whether he's more than average intelligence.

[SuaveStar]

Not a chance.

T.O. Morrow, Niles Caulder, Dr. Sivana. These are people that belong on the list. The Joker, it is even debatable as to whether he's more than average intelligence.

I think he's one of the smartest as he almost knows exactly what he's doing all the time, and is perfectly sane, but doesn't care. Basically what Morrison said in Arkham Asylum. He's not killing or fucking with people's lives because he's insane and doesn't know any better, he doesn't it because he wants to. However he has convinced the whole world that he insane, even if he's not, making him one of the smartest people in the DCU.

[Dread]

It's not easy to pretend you're insane. Especially if it involves random murder and mayhem, the fact that he always gets thrown back in Arkham only adds to that. I agree he's intelligent, but he's nowhere near a genius. Psychological testing is pretty thorough though, and I would hazard a guess that he, at the very least, suffers from a Behavior Disorder. Which is enough to require psychological help.

[SuaveStar]

If you remember Under the Hood Volume 2, where:

Jason reveals that he's worked the Joker out, and that he is just an attention whore who isn't really insane. Jokers face drops and he gets really angry, at the knowledge that someone has worked out him out.

Joker has also convinced Batman that he was other people all the time like:

When he tricked Batman that he was a magician. Or more recently pretending to be Oberon Sexton

Also, where would Maxwell Lord fall on the list? He does have meta powers, so I don't know if he'd count.

Funny how known of us have mentioned the guardians for the smartest people.

Which is enough to require psychological help.

I think he got that once. And whatever happened to the woman helping him?

[Dread]

Lord's a master manipulator but not smart enough to do it without his psychic powers.

Tricking someone smart does not make you a genius. That's all. Crazy people can often do all sorts of stuff that makes people think one thing or another. Like a depressed girlfriend convincing you she'll commit suicide if she leaves. Or even being made to feel responsible for someone's well being. It's human nature. Also, Batman doesn't automatically walk around thinking every person in a mask is Joker.

And there is no way that Joker is an attention whore without being insane. It's impossible to kill that many people for attention without being mentally ill. Nothing the Joker has done has showed him to be a genius.

Another thing,

Oberon tricked Dick and Damian, not Bruce Wayne

[SuaveStar]

It's still Batman that was tricked.

Joker has been driven insane by his antics against Batman, but it doesn't mean that at one time, he was playing an act. If he were to take on anyone in the DCU, he can trick them into a false sense of security. Joker is big and lanky, but that doesn't mean he won't rip your head off at the first opportunity.

Also, it would be possible, if the Joker somehow was able to analyse all the murders he's committed as nothing to do with him, which seems to be what's happening. It's a trigger reaction, he's hiding how he truly feels about the situations in a web of lies.

[Dread]

Sorry Austen, but what the fuck does that have to do with anything?

It's still Batman that was tricked.

Not the Batman we're talking about here.

Joker has been driven insane by his antics against Batman, but it doesn't mean that at one time, he was playing an act. If he were to take on anyone in the DCU, he can trick them into a false sense of security. Joker is big and lanky, but that doesn't mean he won't rip your head off at the first opportunity.

Nothing to do with anything.

Also, it would be possible, if the Joker somehow was able to analyse all the murders he's committed as nothing to do with him, which seems to be what's happening. It's a trigger reaction, he's hiding how he truly feels about the situations in a web of lies.

So, are you arguing that one of the main symptoms of antisocial personality disorder is an argument against his insanity?

[SuaveStar]

So, are you arguing that one of the main symptoms of antisocial personality disorder is an argument against his insanity?

Well, when you put it like that, it makes me sound like an idiot.

I think the Joker is on the list of smartest people, and not the be all and end all. I thought the list would be "Who does everyone think, and then we'll comply a list". But I'll concede the Joker for now, because you brought up some good points, which I rebutted with "He's mad" You may have one this round, but I'll be back.

Reddick!!!!!!!

I stand by the rest of the people on my list though.

[Dread]

I thought the list would be "Who does everyone think, and then we'll comply a list".

Note that I only shot down the one that was ridiculously out of place and the argument was essentially "he's insane so then he's a genius."

I said no to Metron because of his god status using the same rules that apply in the Marvel thread as far as intelligence that is not superpower based. And Clark Kent's an alien.

Other than that, it's a fine list.

But I would say the inclusion of R'as and Tim outstrips actual geniuses like Morrow and Caulder when they're both tactically sound but not really geniuses.

[SuaveStar]

Note that I only shot down the one that was ridiculously out of place and the argument was essentially "he's insane so then he's a genius."

Yes, and I agree, the defence is shaky at the best of times. But it still holds some value that he is smart. I was being told today, that it's one thing to be able to read a book and regurgitate what you've read, but it's whole other to actually do something with it. Which is what the Joker has done with chemistry. I still he think he's smart, just not one of the smartest in the DCU now.

I said no to Metron because of his god status using the same rules that apply in the Marvel thread as far as intelligence that is not superpower based. And Clark Kent's an alien.

I took out Darkseid for the same reasons. Clark I added because he is able to actually live among normal people and underplay who he is, so he is believable as a person. But yeah, he's an alien, so for the same reason as metas, which includes Deathstroke, he's off the list.

Other than that, it's a fine list.

Thank you sir.

But I would say the inclusion of R'as and Tim outstrips actual geniuses like Morrow and Caulder when they're both tactically sound but not really geniuses.

Ra's has found a way to cheat death (which brings up a question about Blackest Night, for another thread)which is what all humans want to be able to do, and he's found it, and has lived for hundreds of years. But that may count as meta powers, as that is not a god given advantage, so he might be off the list for that reason.

I stand by Tim, even if I think what happened in Red Robin #12 was bollocks, he was still able to work out Bruce was not dead from that information.

Well, that was a fun discussion, even if I lost.

[Dread]

If we're talking crazies with chemistry skills, even Scarecrow ranks higher on that list as he created his. Joker just had someone synthesize his Joker Gas from the stuff that turned him.