The leisurely comic discussion thread

[prez]

Author Neil Gaiman wins suit over Spawn characters, US

Eds: APNewsNow. Will be updated.

MADISON, Wis. (AP) — A federal judge has ruled that Coraline and Stardust author Neil Gaiman (GAY-min) is owed royalties for three more characters that appeared in artist Todd McFarlane's classic Spawn comic book series.

U.S. District Court Judge Barbara Crabb ruled last week that the characters Dark Ages Spawn, Domina and Tiffany were derived from characters Gaiman created.

A jury eight years ago found that Gaiman was due money for being a co-copyright holder for three other characters that appeared in the comic series. Neither side has agreed to how much is owed.

McFarlane created the series about an undead superhero in the early 1990s.

Some of Gaiman's other work includes The Sandman comic book series, The Graveyard Book and American Gods.

[Venneh]

Excerpted from the judge's ruling:

The two characters are similar enough to suggest that either Dark Ages (McFarlane) Spawn

is derivative of Medieval (Gaiman) Spawn or it is the same character to which plaintiff owns

the copyright.

Much as defendant tries to distinguish the two knight Hellspawn, he never explains

why, of all the universe of possible Hellspawn incarnations, he introduced two knights from

the same century. Not only does this break the Hellspawn “rule” that Malebolgia never

returns a Hellspawns to Earth more than once every 400 years (or possibly every 100 years,

as suggested in Spawn, No. 9, exh. #1, at 4), it suggests that what defendant really wanted to

do was exploit the possibilities of the knight introduced in issue no. 9. (This possibility is

supported by the odd timing of defendant’s letter to plaintiff on February 14, 1999, just

before publication of the first issue of Spawn The Dark Ages, to the effect that defendant was

rescinding their previous agreements and retaining all rights to Medieval (Gaiman) Spawn.)

If defendant really wanted to differentiate the new Hellspawn, why not make him a

Portuguese explorer in the 16th century; an officer of the Royal Navy in the 18th century, an

idealistic recruit of Simon Bolivar in the 19th century, a companion of Odysseus on his

voyages, a Roman gladiator, a younger brother of Emperor Nakamikado in the early 18th

century, a Spanish conquistador, an aristocrat in the Qing dynasty, an American Indian

warrior or a member of the court of Queen Elizabeth I? It seems far more than coincidence

that Dark Ages (McFarlane) Spawn is a knight from the same century as Medieval (Gaiman)

Spawn.

[prez]

Yeah, apparently the judge REALLY got into this case.

EDIT: The full AP story:

Author Neil Gaiman wins suit over Spawn characters, 1st Ld-Writethru, US

Eds: Updates with additional details from court order, attempts to reach attorneys, background.

By SCOTT BAUER

Associated Press Writer

MADISON, Wis. (AP) — "Coraline" and "Stardust" author Neil Gaiman is owed royalties for three more characters that appeared in artist Todd McFarlane's classic Spawn comic book series, a federal court judge has ruled.

U.S. District Court Judge Barbara Crabb ruled last week that the demon Dark Ages Spawn and two scantily clad female angels, Domina and Tiffany, were derived from characters Gaiman created. Spawn tells the story of a murdered CIA agent who becomes a demon and is hunted by angels.

A jury found eight years ago that Gaiman was due money for being a co-copyright holder for three other characters that appeared in the comic series — Medieval Spawn and Angela as well as a character named Cogliostro, a one-time Spawn ally. Neither side has agreed to how much is owed.

Gaiman testified in June that he believed Dark Ages Spawn was essentially a copy of Medieval Spawn, a character he created in the ninth issue of the Spawn series in 1993. He had been invited by McFarlane to do an issue. Gaiman also said the angels known as Domina and Tiffany were copies of the red-haired Angela, a character who also debuted in Spawn No. 9.

Crabb agreed, saying all three characters were substantially similar to the ones Gaiman created.

"Certainly they are similar enough to be infringing if they had been produced and sold by someone other than the copyright owners," she wrote. Crabb ordered McFarlane to tell Gaiman by Sept. 1 how much money had been earned through the use of the characters in posters, trading cards, clothing, action figures, comic books and anything else where they appeared.

Gaiman's attorney Allen Arntsen said he hoped that a final accounting of how much Gaiman is owed will be done by the end of the year.

"This has been drawn out," Arntsen said. "We're looking forward to bringing it to a resolution."

McFarlane's attorney Alex Grimsley did not immediately return a message seeking comment Monday.

Gaiman commented on the ruling in a Friday blog entry, saying he wants to "forget this forever."

"I wish I took some kind of joy in this, but I don't," Gaiman wrote. "At this point all I hope is that Todd can do an accounting for all the comics I wrote for which he paid no royalties, and the rest of it; and that he'll settle up and I will make some comics charities very happy."

McFarlane created Spawn in 1992 for a startup comic book company, Image Comics. Although it isn't as popular as Batman or Spider-Man, the series has been fairly successful with action figures, an Emmy-winning HBO series and a 1997 movie that grossed $87 million worldwide.

Crabb noted in her ruling that in the Spawn universe, there is only one Spawn that comes to earth every 400 years and McFarlane never explained why he introduced two knights from the same century.

If McFarlane really wanted to create a new Spawn, Crabb wondered why he didn't make him a Portuguese explorer from the 16th century, an officer in the Royal Navy in the 18th century, a Roman gladiator, an American Indian warrior or a member of the court of Queen Elizabeth.

McFarlane argued that the internal rules of the Spawn universe were constantly changing and that while both characters existed in the same time period, they were distinct and different.

Crabb didn't buy it.

"It seems far more than coincidence that Dark Ages Spawn is a knight from the same century as Medieval Spawn," the judge wrote.

In addition to Spawn, McFarlane illustrated a number of big-time superheroes, including Batman and Spider-Man, before co-founding Image Comics. He also manufactures action figures and made headlines in 1999 when he paid $3 million for the baseball Mark McGwire hit for his then-record 70th home run in a season.

Gaiman, who lives in northwestern Wisconsin near the Twin Cities, wrote the "Sandman" comic book series. His novels include "American Gods," ''Coraline" and "The Graveyard Book," which won the John Newbery Medal.

[Missy]

HA! I love this judge!

[Molly]

Gaiman, who lives in northwestern Wisconsin near the Twin Cities, wrote the "Sandman" comic book series. His novels include "American Gods," ''Coraline" and "The Graveyard Book," which won the John Newbery Medal.

He's my neighbor.

[Stavros]

Gaiman, who lives in northwestern Wisconsin near the Twin Cities, wrote the "Sandman" comic book series. His novels include "American Gods," ''Coraline" and "The Graveyard Book," which won the John Newbery Medal.

He's my neighbor.

Oh dear, this is the part where Preston becomes a stalker.

[Molly]

Gaiman, who lives in northwestern Wisconsin near the Twin Cities, wrote the "Sandman" comic book series. His novels include "American Gods," ''Coraline" and "The Graveyard Book," which won the John Newbery Medal.

He's my neighbor.

Oh dear, this is the part where Preston becomes a stalker.

He'll love it at my house.

[Dread]

Ha! A comic geek judge.

"Ahem, Mr. McFarlane, <pushes glasses up brideg of nose> it should be noted that these two medieval versions of Spawn not only resemble each other, they break the continuity that you yourself created in the mythology of the series. Worst. Legal. Argument. Ever."

[Venneh]

Yeah, Des, I just quoted that at Larsen as he's whining about the case on Twitter. Sorry bout that.

[Dread]

What what?

Has it come up at all about the derivative nature of Gaiman's characters? Of how the Medieval Spawn character is the same as Spawn?

[Venneh]

Larsen doesn't much care.

An earlier quote from him on the case:

The McFarlane/Gaiman thing still burns me up in the basic unfairness of it all. As you said, "Had the judge asked them, I’m sure the all-female jury would have been happy to give Neil the rights to Spawn, Todd’s house and cars, Madonna’s uniform from A League of Their Own and the Mark McGuire baseball and anything else Neil expressed an interest in" and that’s not right. (Insert blanket condemnation of the American Judicial System here). Giving Neil Medieval Spawn is unfair. Had a jury let Todd own Medieval Sandman, Neil’s fans would be screaming bloody murder. Medieval Spawn is Spawn on a horse (and it was Todd who named him "Medieval Spawn," incidentally, when he made a toy based on his own design—Neil referred to his throughout his script as "Spawn."). To me, Angela is very much a derivative character as well. She could not have been created in a vacuum. She’s the opposite of Spawn. He’s from Hell—she’s from Heaven. He’s male—she’s female. He’s black—she’s white. She hunts Spawns, for cryin’ out loud! She’s the Spawn equivalent of Spider-Man’s Spider-Slayers. Todd eventually DID write Angela out of the book.

Doling out dough to everybody who helped out along the way would be nice—I certainly see nothing wrong with acknowledging valuable contributions with a piece of the action but, it’s impractical in most cases and it’s certainly not something that can be instituted of enforced. Besides, a number of people who do creator-owned stuff make next to NO money and being forced to give MORE out cash to others might very well do them in. And, again, how do you judge what’s fair? A logo is worth WHAT? A suggestion is worth WHAT? How can you quantify it? A template contract may be a good idea but I fear that—like the Creator Bill of Rights it would largely be ignored or dismissed.

[Molly]

I hate to agree with Erik Larsen with on anything more than how to draw, but dude has a point on the creator stuff. The misogyny is a bit out of line though.

[Dread]

It's funny because Todd created Venom. And you don't see him asking for back pay on that.

[Molly]

It's funny because Todd created Venom. And you don't see him asking for back pay on that.

And you're precisely right. I love Gaiman, I do. But this is just not the standard operating procedure for the industry. I'm no McFarlane fan, but, this is all messed up.

[Koete]

If you wanted a hardcover of Hush with Jim Lee's art uninked and uncolored, DC is going to give it to you.

[Molly]

If you wanted a hardcover of Hush with Jim Lee's art uninked and uncolored, DC is going to give it to you.

God damn, that's a great idea.

[KnightWing]

If there's no dialogue bubbles or boxes, it'll be even better.

[Mull]

Cant stop laughing at the most recent Thunderbolts issue and more specifically one panel of Cage walking away, cant remember the page but the guy is drawn horribly as if he has just suffered a stroke and no-ones noticed lol Please someone find a picture of it

[Koete]

When I was reading comics when I was 15, Superman didn't deal with rape so much, you know? There weren't a lot of dark elements to mainstream superhero comics. I think that it's pretty obvious that one of the things that's hurting comics is that the subject matter is so inappropriate for a mass audience. You know, Marvel just did an intercompany crossover which was supposed to be something all of their readers can read, and it had guys ripping each other in half and intestines were flying all over the place. That's the kind of thing that you would see in a Walking Dead comic. I don't want to see Spider-Man swinging around, tripping in intestines going, 'Aw, crap! What a mess!' That's not the kind of thing that's going to get Billy down the street off of his Xbox. I think part of the problem is that the writers and artists that are doing these books want to write them for themselves, instead of for the audience they should be writing to. And I think that's a real problem. [...] I think it's cool to see superheroes rip people in half. Because if superheroes really had superpowers, that's the kind of shit that would happen, just on accident, you know? And so I created a book called Invincible that isn't meant for a younger audience, and has superheroes ripping each other in half. But I didn't try to take Superman and turn it into that book. I did my own book. I think that's the key.

-Robert Kirkman

[Molly]

You know, just when I think that I couldn't love Robert Kirkman any more that I already did.

[Missy]

Let's see. Who wrote Ant-Man as a douchebag Peeping Tom, and who started the superhero-zombie trend? Surely that wasn't Kirkman when he was writing for Marvel. No sir!

EDIT: That said, I don't disagree with what he's saying. But it has to be pointed out that he added to the dark, grim stories he's complaining about.

Edited August 6, 2010 by The Master

[Molly]

Let's see. Who wrote Ant-Man as a douchebag Peeping Tom,

It wasn't the classic Ant-Man. And frankly, the classic Ant-Man has been radioactive on and off since he smacked his wife in the eighties.

And Irredeemable Ant-Man was fucking awesome.

and who started the superhero-zombie trend? Surely that wasn't Kirkman when he was writing for Marvel. No sir!

It was an Elseworlds style book, I think that insane level of violence is allowed there, because Elseworld books SHOULD be allowed to go there, when the main continuities can't.

[Guest]

I wonder what the next excuse is going to be when comics become squeaky clean and the sales still suck.

[Molly]

He's not saying that there isn't a place for dark. He's saying that having Marvel's biggest event of the year focus on incredible gore is bad priorities. He's saying that maybe there needs to be more kid friendly books on the market. We need those books so kids can grow into the Garth Ennises of the world.

[Guest]

I think a lot of these innocent kids that comics are supposedly neglecting are the same ones playing Left 4 Dead and Halo online right now.

I'm all for raising more kids in the culture and getting them into reading but I really think this whole violence thing is being overstated.