The leisurely comic discussion thread


Aaron Robinson

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The first comic book superhero, Superman, fought a liberal/social agenda in his first stories. The character only became a symbol of lawful authority later.

Wait, what? What were Superman's first stories, fighting abortion and universal healthcare? He's an illegal immigrant! Surely it's hard to categorise Superman's early stories as having a political motive unless you're going to say "Well Superman believes in law and order and is therefore conservative" which is an absurdly general statement.

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That is kinda bullshit but it is worth pointing out that the Superman of the Radio Program was a bit of a lefty. He fought the KKK in one story, fought for civil liberties, and was fully in support of giving aid to those over seas. Then again, these are only really leftist ideals now. Back then, this was after the war and it would be being kinda a dick not to help the starving people in Europe. It was just being a decent human being.

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It's a (semi?) common perception that Superman was a more liberal character in the Golden Age days, mostly because he fought more to help the poor and unbalance many of those in authority because of their greed. Personally, I don't really see a huge political problem with that. In a time that wasn't so removed from the Great Depression, it made sense to have a hero that very specifically focused on the downtrodden. And, to be entirely fair, it's not as though Superman ever stopped protecting those people; it's just that he started fighting aliens and other bigger threats. Keeping Tex Richman from buying out a crumbling apartment building and plowing it for oil is a bit of a lower priority than a Brainiac invasion.

I do think there's a decent point in that article, though, which is that comic book heroes should be more apolitical. Fighting for general good is fine, but when you start identifying things that have been made arbitrary "liberal" or "conservative" points (oil drilling, driving gas guzzlers or hybrids) as "good" or "evil," things stop being entertaining for at least one half of the audience.

I imagine that for a lot of liberal comic readers, this stuff is either inconsequential or just registers as "good." But a lot of it, I think, is unnecessary personal politics put into a book that should be above that sort of thing. It sometimes just comes off as dogma. Ever start reading a book, then later realize it's a blatant religious allegory trying to shove Jesus in your face? Yeah. That's occasionally what reading comics is like as a non-liberal.

There are a few things that everyone can agree on. Emperor Palpatine is a bad dude. Killing innocent people is wrong. Fascism is bad. But once we start getting into unnecessary specificity on real-world issues, things just get weird. I always like mainstream superhero comics to be metaphors for reality, not windows into it.

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So what's your stance on say Animal Man? Because I might not agree with the main character's views on animal rights but damn it that's a good comic. Same with Ultimates, it's a total right wing fantasy but it's still fun. It's not just about the leaning of the comics, it's about how well the writer constructs the characters. You can not agree with a character and still enjoy them surely.I mean damn if I had to agree with the political stance of every character I read I'd never read anything fun.

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I think it's a general case-by-case basis.

I don't really have a problem with Green Arrow being depicted as liberal or Captain Atom as being conservative. More accurately, I like that GA is all about protecting the "little guy" and CA is resolute in his service to his country. Those types of things actually go above petty politics; those are just general altruistic ideals that most everyone can appreciate. But what I don't want to see is the two of them arguing over something entirely unrelated like abortion.

If it's an actual meaningful thing that makes a deep point, that's one thing. But if you're just throwing a "Top 1%" reference in there or having Green Arrow rant at people for not driving hybrids (that's happened), it's petty politics for politics' sake. It shouldn't matter which side of the aisle characters are on; they should be driven by their deep beliefs, not which side of the conservative/liberal debate they've taken.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

If you believe Liefeld's take on the whole thing, it's odd to consider the book ended because Liefeld wanted to produce the best art he possibly could, while Kirkman wanted an older Liefeld style. (Granted, it hasn't changed much, but enough that Liefeld is right when he doesn't want to take a step back 20 years.)

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Can we stop bashing Liefeld? I mean, there are way worse artists out there, working way more than he does, that never improve and act like huge douches. Yes, Rob Liefeld was kind of a fuck up in the 90s, but that was 20 years ago, and he's done more for indy comics than anyone that's not Mike Mignola.

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I'm not suggesting this is what you were doing, Hannah, but yeah, it's time to lay off Liefeld. He can't draw for shit, IMHO, but he never could, and the joke is getting old. I'm as guilty of this as anyone. He's a decent guy who works hard. He's no longer the poster boy for Everything That's Wrong With Comics Today and while it can be very tempting for people to lay into him, he's done his time.

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It wasn't directed at anyone in particular, apologies if it seemed that way. There are just far bigger fish to fry in comics today.

And, yeah, Chris, totally forgot about Valentino. Still it's hard to picture Image, and by extension, creator owned work succeeding without Liefeld. McFarlane, Larsen and Lee moved books, sure, but Liefeld was on another level.

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