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JackFetch

Game of Thrones

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next ep looks to be centered away from kings landing, and going by titles, Tyrion's trial will be ep 5, and the Oberyn/Mountain duel will be ep 8. If they do this right, there is amazing potential to examine the fallout and still hit all the book plot threads.

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So, what in the actual fuck was with them deciding to make the sept sex into a rape scene? Was there some damn quota that they hadn't fulfilled? Cersei does not look more sympathetic for having undergone this, and they literally threw all of Jaime's character development out the window for this.

Ugh.

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Apparently the director thought that it was consensual by the end and that the whole thing was a turn-on for them, which is completely fucked up. I was going to see if there was any point to what they did, but after reading that and how the scene was in the book, I'm going to go ahead and say the show is permanently damaged.

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I've been reading two different things - the Salon article making the rounds, and this, where he isn't saying it's consensual and that the show runners were more into it than he was:

www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-director-controversial-scene-697733

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Her protesting and yet still doing it was pretty much exactly how I remember the deal in the books. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seemed pretty accurate to the source.

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Fair enough, I still think they were going for something like the original, and I'm putting it down to poor execution.

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I'm with Tom, the problem is the book scene starts out rape-y and significantly changes tune. The episode cut out before the change really occurred.

I think Jamie can be redeemed, but it will need to be carefully done. Let's not forget they made Khal Drogo a rapist, too.

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Well murder is worse than rape and Cercei is worse than Bran so on the scale of things too awful to be quantified on a scale you can make a guess.

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The problem is, the attempted murder of Brandon should have been Jamie's lowest point, the point that makes his heroic redemption all the more impressive. Whereas the reunion with Cersei was meant to be a stumbling block on his heroic journey, and it's almost turned back into another Moral Event Horizon.

That and Bran is just... awful.

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I like how people are up in arms over a rape. A rape. Do you realize you're watching Game of Thrones? There is literally no moral compass on this show.

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There's a character with the fan name, "The Mountain That Rapes." Jamie threw a kid out the window in the first episode. It's mainly people forgetting he was a douche until last season. They forget a wounded dog can still rip your face off.

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It seems that a lot of the upset is not that there was a rape in and of itself (although some of that is there as well), but that it deviated from the book. Sometimes in an adaptation changes are made (and that all by itself will cause consternation), but it appears to me that taking a scene which read as either consensual or as "it became consensual at some point" (which is problematic all by its lonesome) appeared on screen to have been changed to a violent act against a woman for no real reason other than shock or tittilation (although there was NOTHING tittilating about that scene).

Brother-sister bumping of uglies in a church under the body of their dead incest baby not being shocking enough, mind.

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I'm more bothered by the derailment of the best character arc on the series.

Jamie went to all that effort to keep Brienne from getting raped last season and then rapes Cersei? There's my fucking issue.

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And I get that Brienne is the honorable, virginal knightess and Cersei is the hateful bitch who uses sex as the most effective weapon in the series, but rape is still rape. There are characters that could, should and will perform more sexual violence in the upcoming seasons. The new and improved Jamie Lannister is not one of them.

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And I get that Brienne is the honorable, virginal knightess and Cersei is the hateful bitch who uses sex as the most effective weapon in the series, but rape is still rape. There are characters that could, should and will perform more sexual violence in the upcoming seasons. The new and improved Jamie Lannister is not one of them.

I understand where you're coming from, but you're looking at this from the perspective of someone who's read the books. I would argue most viewers haven't and this is a thing on its own. I love that one of the best people in this world is a rapist and murderer. Even Arya takes great sadistic joy in killing when she does.

Game of Thrones is nihilistic and misanthropic. I love that it is so popular.

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I'm more bothered by the derailment of the best character arc on the series.

Jamie went to all that effort to keep Brienne from getting raped last season and then rapes Cersei? There's my fucking issue.

real life does not have neat story and character arks that go from A to Z. So why should a TV show have them. Is playing with the conventions of what people expect from a show not a good thing?

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Except it doesn't fit the character's arc at all.

Because I'm one of those guys that has read the books and knows where this is going.

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Not to outright defend it but remember that in the novels, Jamie is just getting back when The Purple Wedding occurs. Now, he's had weeks to be rejected by Cersei and see the extent of how she's changed. Not only that but Cersei has been able to adjust to the new Jamie. It might be a narrative mistake but it's not outright character derailment.

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