Iron Man 3

[Dread]

Here's my Marvel film rating so far:

Iron Man

Captain America

The Avengers

Thor

Iron Man 3

Iron Man 2

[JackFetch]

I think it's funny that everyone loves this movie except comic book fans.

[NightAngle04]

Well its not hard to understand why comic book fans don't like it.

[Dread]

My dislike of it has nothing to do with my comic fandom. Every comic fan on earth seemed to think Avengers was the best movie ever made and I was underwhelmed.

My dislike of the movie is based on its shitty quality.

[KnightWing]

I liked it pretty well. I don't know that it beats out the first Iron Man (that one was gloriously simple and great), but this one was pretty good overall. Had some flaws (I think wasting the Mandarin like that makes no sense; just use a different character in that case), however I think its strengths won out in the end. At the very least, they've now progressed Tony Stark's character away from the same place he's been in since Iron Man 2 (where he seemed to have actually regressed from the end of 1).

[Stavros]

I'm not going as far as Des just because on the overall scale of superhero films nothing in Marvel's Avengerverse fits in the bottom 50% of the genre. However despite the ties this one has to the first movie in many ways, the Mandarin and the Ten Rings terrorist group that kept Tony in a cave aren't related. That's just weird. They're terrorists, they're named for the Mandarin, but they're nothing to do with the Mandarin.

[SuaveStar]

Adding spoiler to my comments, just in case.

I went to see the film in 2D, and felt like I missed nothing, so, can I ask those that did see in 3D what scenes were in 3D? I'm guessing the bit in Pepper's office was one of them. And am I right in thinking that they never explained how Tony survived the big space rift in Avengers, or did they not explain it, as he didn't know he was going to survive and took it as a suicide mission?

Also, I'm guessing you've not seen Incredible Hulk, Des, that, or you really dislike that film The music was strange as, and I may be wrong about this, this is the first time in a Marvel film featuring Iron Man that they haven't had any AD/DC music. And the terrorist thing makes sense to me, why follow BP and admit failure, when you can just blame a ghost terrorist, and have everyone blame terrorists, rather than you billion dollar corporation.

I still enjoyed it, it wasn't the best film of all time, but it was a fun popcorn film, even if they felt the need to kill off the villain at the end. Which they clearly did after bringing him back over three times.

[Davedevil]

I went to see it in 3D and didn't get too much out of it. The bit in Pepper's office is the only one that sticks out in my mind.

As for the movie, I loved it. There were a few times when I was looking at my watch but other than that, I had so much fun.

[Guest]

Switch Thor and the Avengers and Des and I have the same rankings.

Good to know I can save my money.

[Dread]

Two sort of spoilery things that ruin the story for me:

1. Iron Man 1 and 2 went a long way toward establishing a greater universe. In fact, that's almost the sole purpose of IM 2, but

when Tony's in dire trouble knowing there's a greater conspiracy and a huge threat to the entire country, the only phone call he makes is to his wife? Not Rhodey? Not Fury? Not Cap? Not the guy who was playing video games on the SHIELD Helicarrier? Sure, tell me it was a pride thing, but then try and explain why he needs to get help from an 11 year old boy.

2.

"It was me all along! I'm the Mandarin!" is the most useless fucking villain reveal of all time. Why? Because Stark already knew that and Killian already knew that Stark knew that.

IM 2 was a bad movie because it was fucking useless. This movie is far worse on a script level than anything Marvel's ever done. And that's on a Shane Black script too.

Personally, I look forward to a post-Robert Downey Jr. Marvel Film Universe.

[dc20willsave]

I saw it and I kinda have to say, while it was a fun movie, it was a very stupid movie also. Easily the worst in the Marvel Cinematic Universe thus far. It helped that I saw the movie at the drive-in so we could list off problems as we saw them. Let's do a partial list of problems.

1) Like Des brought up, where the hell is SHIELD? We decided that it was their paperwork week. SHIELD has been a presence in the last two films so the fact that they can't even be bothered to deal with terrorists just seems stupid. They're fucking SHIELD. That's what they do. It feels unnecessarily isolationist.

2) What was the villains plan again outside of being The Riddler in Batman Forever? There was no reason to pump Pepper full of your crazy nanotech, no reason to kill the president, no reason to make your exploding soldier bombs, really just no reason to do anything really.

3) For that matter, that is the worst nanotech ever. It kills you half the time and the other half it gives you fire hands and, in one case, flame breath? That's pretty dumb. Almost as dumb as the visual of Guy Pearce shirtless and glowing with the crappy looking tattoos.

4) Scientist chick has a heel turn out of nowhere followed by the least believable face turn and we're expected to care when she gets murdered. No.

5) Tony blows up all his remaining Iron Man suits. It's like someone saw the ending of the Dark Knight Rises and decided, "Let's use that!" In face, a lot of plot elements seemed taken from other Superhero films. Off the top of my head, Tony using a set of armor to talk with Pepper while he works downstairs is Doctor Manhattan, the previously mentioned use of The Riddler's backstory in Batman Forever for Killian. The only thing that feels like it was more scraped from for plot hooks was the Metal Gear series to be honest.

6) Ben Kingsley, honey, you're a talented actor. That said, I think you were better in Bloodrayne. At least there you weren't a white man playing a pseudo-Asian and your accent wasn't some kinda Texan-British hybrid that was more offensive to the ears than cockney.

7) So, that was a rather dumb ending. I mean, let's look at it. Tony knew about this wonderful heart surgeon for like the past 13 years and never thought to go to him after he got pumped full of shrapnel, especially when the magnet was killing him last movie. Also, Pepper gets magically cured of the Extremeis, the vice-president gets arrested for not making a phone call on Christmas day when he was spending time with his family (yes, could be seen as conspiracy but still), Tony gives a little kid a tricked out workshop and a big potato gun which will not end well, and he blows up all his suits despite the fact that we all know that what is supposedly a touching finale means nothing because Marvel has already said they'll just recast the part when Downey inevitably walks away because they refuse to give him another 50 million.

That's not to say that were some good parts. Rhodey was good though I still preferred Terrance Howard in the part. Paltrow got to do something though it's not going to look good that the president of a Fortune 500 company murdered a man. Honestly the movie could have been so much worse. It just what we were given was so dumb that it overshadows the good way too much.

[SuaveStar]

Will, on some of your points:

The vice presidents daughter is missing a leg, if he's able to get AIM to be readily available that means his daughter has a better chance at a full life, in his eyes at least. They were going to kill the president to have the vice president take over, and then they could make AIM the US Armies first port of call for the super soldier weapons. When he's outed from office, AIM will already, in theory, have their feet under the table.

The exploding soldiers was a problem they never properly dealt with, so they just didn't tell anyone and found an antidote that only worked for small periods of time, and if they blew up, they'd call in the Mandarin to say "I did that" in a form of damage control, which was explains why the soldier at the Chinese Theatre was acting like a crazed drug addict, he did not want to die, and only AIM could save his life.

And the Nanotech wasn't supposed to give you superpowers, it was supposed to repair limbs and fix cell issues, so's the soldiers could become stronger and faster than the opposition. The superpowers were just an unwanted side effect at first. Of course Killian would have them, he was likely the test subject. And he pumped Pepper full of the stuff in the hopes of making her explode, for turning him down when he looked like a generic geek.

Oh, and I think part of RDJ's money from Avengers was a percentage deal, so Marvel didn't technically pony up the 50 million to get him on the film, it's just he was able to write himself a fantastic deal.

7: There's always a chance with surgery that Tony could die, and he didn't want that. Plus, he's an egomaniac, why would he trust someone else to work on him while he is out cold? Tony likely kept using the reactor as he didn't want a repeat of what happened to him in the first film.

I thought those things were made clear during the film. Again, it's not the best film of all time, but I look forward to seeing again, at home, on Blu-Ray, while eating cereal.

[dc20willsave]

Will, on some of your points:

The vice presidents daughter is missing a leg, if he's able to get AIM to be readily available that means his daughter has a better chance at a full life, in his eyes at least. They were going to kill the president to have the vice president take over, and then they could make AIM the US Armies first port of call for the super soldier weapons. When he's outed from office, AIM will already, in theory, have their feet under the table.

The exploding soldiers was a problem they never properly dealt with, so they just didn't tell anyone and found an antidote that only worked for small periods of time, and if they blew up, they'd call in the Mandarin to say "I did that" in a form of damage control, which was explains why the soldier at the Chinese Theatre was acting like a crazed drug addict, he did not want to die, and only AIM could save his life.

And the Nanotech wasn't supposed to give you superpowers, it was supposed to repair limbs and fix cell issues, so's the soldiers could become stronger and faster than the opposition. The superpowers were just an unwanted side effect at first. Of course Killian would have them, he was likely the test subject. And he pumped Pepper full of the stuff in the hopes of making her explode, for turning him down when he looked like a generic geek.

Oh, and I think part of RDJ's money from Avengers was a percentage deal, so Marvel didn't technically pony up the 50 million to get him on the film, it's just he was able to write himself a fantastic deal.

7: There's always a chance with surgery that Tony could die, and he didn't want that. Plus, he's an egomaniac, why would he trust someone else to work on him while he is out cold? Tony likely kept using the reactor as he didn't want a repeat of what happened to him in the first film.

I thought those things were made clear during the film. Again, it's not the best film of all time, but I look forward to seeing again, at home, on Blu-Ray, while eating cereal.

See, here's the thing. Yes, this is a universe with super-technology and magic. My problem with the nanotech is more that it's freaking magic. It regrows limbs in minutes. It makes flesh and blood limbs from thin air. It breaks conservation of mass. It's being used for what is essentially a money-making scheme. It gives a guy flame-breath. It allows human tissue to conduct large amounts of heat that should outright boil the nervous system. It makes people explode in fireballs.

Okay, I did forget about the VP's daughter's leg but still, Killian's plan still makes no sense when he realizes that they were no place close to perfecting the nanotech. Before the military even touched this thing they would have wanted extensive field-tests conducted by independent contractors. It doesn't matter if these are unintended side-effects. The FDA would have come down on their skulls. SHIELD should have shut them down in minutes. The short term antidote wouldn't fly for the same reason that we only practice triage in times of war: Short-term solutions are more of a risk than anything.

Proactively dealing with this point, Killian wanted Tony's help in fixing the problem. Then he proceeds to try and kill him and/or use Pepper to get him to do it. I get it. Tony's smart but he specializes in robotics and, to a lesser extent, energy. I hate when movies dictate that all scientists can do everything. Not really. Sure, a nuclear engineer has some basic knowledge of biology but you can't expect him to cure AIDS.

I didn't even bring up the stupid fake Mandarin plot really but here goes. Let's say that Killian wins, keeps using Mandarian to pump up sales of Extremis (now with 20% more laws of reality bending action). How long before someone sees a video of one of the Mandarin's addresses and recognizes him from his stage-acting. I've been able to watch commercials and remember someone from another commercial like four years ago. It won't be long before the money trail gets traced. The plan is just stupid. I don't expect rocket science but still, the plot is so stupid when you think about it for longer than ten minutes and notice it's swiss cheese.

And yeah, RDJ's 50 million did come from percentage so Marvel/Disney didn't directly shell out money but it's still money that they didn't get to pocket, all the same. Downey is expendable. If he expects the same payday from them again, even with residuals, it's going to be some nasty negotiations that end with Disney pointing out, "Yeah, tell you what, why don't you just go home. It's not that hard to search/replace Tony with Rhodey. Later."

So yeah, I somehow find myself hating this movie now than I did an hour ago. Give me another day and I might start comparing it to The Last Airbender.

[SuaveStar]

See, here's the thing. Yes, this is a universe with super-technology and magic. My problem with the nanotech is more that it's freaking magic. It regrows limbs in minutes. It makes flesh and blood limbs from thin air. It breaks conservation of mass. It's being used for what is essentially a money-making scheme. It gives a guy flame-breath. It allows human tissue to conduct large amounts of heat that should outright boil the nervous system. It makes people explode in fireballs.

Okay, I did forget about the VP's daughter's leg but still, Killian's plan still makes no sense when he realizes that they were no place close to perfecting the nanotech. Before the military even touched this thing they would have wanted extensive field-tests conducted by independent contractors. It doesn't matter if these are unintended side-effects. The FDA would have come down on their skulls. SHIELD should have shut them down in minutes. The short term antidote wouldn't fly for the same reason that we only practice triage in times of war: Short-term solutions are more of a risk than anything.

Proactively dealing with this point, Killian wanted Tony's help in fixing the problem. Then he proceeds to try and kill him and/or use Pepper to get him to do it. I get it. Tony's smart but he specializes in robotics and, to a lesser extent, energy. I hate when movies dictate that all scientists can do everything. Not really. Sure, a nuclear engineer has some basic knowledge of biology but you can't expect him to cure AIDS.

I didn't even bring up the stupid fake Mandarin plot really but here goes. Let's say that Killian wins, keeps using Mandarian to pump up sales of Extremis (now with 20% more laws of reality bending action). How long before someone sees a video of one of the Mandarin's addresses and recognizes him from his stage-acting. I've been able to watch commercials and remember someone from another commercial like four years ago. It won't be long before the money trail gets traced. The plan is just stupid. I don't expect rocket science but still, the plot is so stupid when you think about it for longer than ten minutes and notice it's swiss cheese.

And yeah, RDJ's 50 million did come from percentage so Marvel/Disney didn't directly shell out money but it's still money that they didn't get to pocket, all the same. Downey is expendable. If he expects the same payday from them again, even with residuals, it's going to be some nasty negotiations that end with Disney pointing out, "Yeah, tell you what, why don't you just go home. It's not that hard to search/replace Tony with Rhodey. Later."

So yeah, I somehow find myself hating this movie now than I did an hour ago. Give me another day and I might start comparing it to The Last Airbender.

The speed at which they regrow the limbs could be explained away by the idea that they are using DNA similar to the plant in the opening, which unfortunately blew up. That, and Tony's arrogant formula that nobody stopped and said "Since when was he a biologist?" In Marvel movie logic, this could be possible. In real world, not bloody likely.

Yeah, it could destroy the nervous system, and it did, most of the super soldiers could not feel pain, and if they could, it was driven down, and the explosions is just the body rejecting the serum from the system. Far fetched, but still slightly plausible.

Of course it's a money making scheme, Killian, like most real world villains, isn't in it to make a point, or show off, he's in it for the money.

With your comment about the FDA, I think a quote from RoboCop fits here, "We had a military contract, with a twenty year contract for spare parts, who cared if it worked or not!" Killian/Shane Black/The Marvel Brain trust probably didn't think this through, but that's the best defence I can think of.

The Mandarin was given plastic surgery, so's that what you said about recognising people couldn't happen. And, what if Killian beat Stark? What is stopping Killian from just killing The Mandarin after a while, then just cut and paste his clips together? I'm sure Killian didn't just The Mandarin to record specific segments related to the war he commited, he probably did an old wrestler promo thing, where you just said the name of your opponent, the name of some city, then they just cut and pasted it together in editing. If you say something like that can't happen in the real world, wasn't there a rumour for years that Bin Laden was dead, and all his footage was just recuts of old footage to keep the public afraid of this figure of war?

[KnightWing]

Actually, Will, your point about energy/conservation of mass/etc might explain Tony's ability to solve it. Tony is the only guy in the world (aside from maybe Whiplash via his dad's notes) who can create basically-unlimited clean energy with the arc reactor. Perhaps the energy balance was what Killian was missing. Furthermore, if Extremis is nanotech, then Tony's engineer background would actually help. And hey, maybe he does know a thing or two about biology; he clearly had to learn a lot during Iron Man 2 when he was searching for a way for his body not to die.

To me, thus far, most of the complaints about the movie are nitpicks that are easily explained away. The odd seeming-misuse of the Mandarin is literally the only major complaint I have, and that's not even an actual mark against the movie itself.

[Guest]

Poor writing and an unlikeable protagonist don't seem particularly nitpicky.

[Dread]

Exactly.

And Will, another point on the complete ripoff of Dark Knight Rises...

the major terrorist villain with the funny accent who does public warnings and executions is revealed to be not the true villain when the fellow business person/rival is.

You'd be hard-pressed to find a sliver of originality in this movie.

[KnightWing]

Poor writing and an unlikeable protagonist don't seem particularly nitpicky.

Except that I didn't find him unlikable and the claims of "poor writing" is what I was calling nitpicky.

[dc20willsave]

Nitpicky is looking for problems. Des and I are both finding legitimate glaring plotholes that would wreck a car if it drove over one.

I find Tony unlikable because every movie, his character regresses from the majority of the development in the previous one.

[Molly]

I hate to be thus guy, but isn't that just... Iron Man? Tony Stark is a fucking asshole, no matter what happens.

[Guest]

Poor writing and an unlikeable protagonist don't seem particularly nitpicky.

Except that I didn't find him unlikable and the claims of "poor writing" is what I was calling nitpicky.

Why yes, I do understand sentence context.

[NightAngle04]

I guess overall I would say its average/fine/decent. But there is a lot of dumb shit in the movie and I will never see it again. I'm amazed by some of the reviews I saw calling it the "Best Iron Man yet!".

[Venneh]

So apparently, IM3 was going to have a sex tape plot involving Pepper.

Huh.

[Missy]

That's downright stupid. It would have ruined and contradicted Pepper's character, pissed off a load of parents, and added nothing to the movie.

[Molly]

...I didn't think it was that bad. You guys are acting like it's the Reb Brown Cap movie all over again.