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Episode 62

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Just listening to it now, I'll make more comments later, but all I'll say now is...

I genuinely LOVE The Horns of Nimon...it's the only Douglas Adams era story which actually makes me laugh, and I really enjoy it :-D

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Laugh in a genuinely funny way, or laugh in a "this is so terrible" kind of way?

Bit of both really, but more the actual fun of the show. Yes I can see some of the faults (The Co-Pilot rips his trousers quite early in the show, and it stays that way for most of the show!!), but on the whole i think it works as a story far better than most of the rest of S17 (Far better than Nightmare of Eden, Creature from the Pit, Shada) and most of Series 16 too (but then i've never been a fan of the Key to Time).

I do agree that Tom Baker is out of control, and i'm a big JNT fan...he was quite right to pull back on aspects of the show, but for this story...it just works. I think it's cause i see it as a bit of a pantomime (which is a very british thing).

Oh and Graham Crowden (who sadly died last year) is an excellent actor, who has done many excellent roles (and would have been a great 4th Doctor). he's particularly good in a series starring Peter Davison called "A Very Peculiar Practice".

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Laugh in a genuinely funny way, or laugh in a "this is so terrible" kind of way?

Bit of both really, but more the actual fun of the show. Yes I can see some of the faults (The Co-Pilot rips his trousers, and it stays that way for most of the show!!), but on the whole i think it works as a story far better than most of the rest of S17 (Far better than Nightmare of Eden, Creature from the Pit, Shada) and most of Series 16 too (but then i've never been a fan of the Key to Time).

I do agree that Tom Baker is out of control, and i'm a big JNT fan...he was quite right to pull back on aspects of the show, but for this story...it just works. I think it's cause i see it as a bit of a pantomime (which is a very british thing).

Oh and Graham Crowden (who sadly died last year) is an excellent actor, who has done many excellent roles (and would have been a great 4th Doctor). he's particularly good in a series starring Peter Davison called "A Very Peculiar Practice".

I think that if I were to look at the show as being "The Irrepressible Adventures of Tom Baker", which is what Williams had allowed the show to become at this point, there are things I could point to as being genuinely amusing, including many of the things I decried in our discussion. However, as a Doctor Who story, I felt it failed simply and only because the lead actor is refusing to take anything seriously anymore. If the Doctor doesn't believe he's in any danger, why should I?

I've heard many good things about Graham "Soldeed" Crowden, and I have no reason to think he wouldn't have made a wonderful Doctor. But this performance is terrible.

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I have oddly fond memories of The Horns of Nimon...but I know it's a nostalgia for how and when I watched it, not the story itself.

As for Shada, I agree that it was pieces of a brilliant story. (Fun fact: Did you know David Brierly only added the K-9 voice years later for the video release? They hadn't recorded it yet when production shut down.) I think I need to get the Big Finish version now to see what it's like with all its lines and scenes in.

And 2|Entertain are up to something with it? That should be interesting...

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I have to say the part where he pulled out the ribbon for K9 cracked me up. It was just silly enough. The rest seemed like it could have been a good story if done at a different time. Possibly.

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I don't really get the love for Shada...yes, the location work looks nice, but i can't imagine (however much money they'd saved on other stories) the scenes set off earth matching the ambition of the writing. And it has all the flaws of many other stories of this era. I'm not a huge Adams fan (although I love the original TV series of Hitch Hikers), so maybe that clouds my appreciation of his Doctor Who work, but aside from City of Death, there's nothing else he's done on DW that i particularly like.

I'm intrigued by Dan's comment about this being the worst season yet, but that others in the future will run it close...I'm not sure I'd agree, I suppose S24 is the obvious one, but i'm not sure i'd put it worse than this or S16 (and i'd put S16 as worse than S17).

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I've finally made it to episode 62, and find that I disagree with your reviews of both stories.

Nimon - I finally saw this story about three years ago. I had always heard that it was terrible, one of the worst stories ever made of any series, and other similar comments. My expectations were low going in. Did that help? Probably. I enjoyed the story start to finish. Yes, there were times the actors looked up, saw the top, jumped up over the top, and then added booster rockets. I don't care. It was pure entertainment. Knowing that I would be listening to this today, I went back and re-watched the story with fresh eyes, to see if I still enjoyed it. I do, every bit. For me, it holds up. As one of you said recently, every single story is somebody's favorite. (still counts, even though it's not my number 1)

Shada - I'm sorry, guys, but ... this one is just OK. I think the idea of this being a "lost" story makes it better in fans' eyes in much the same way we look fondly at the idea of Galaxy Four, Power of the Daleks, Macra Terror, or Celestial Toymaker. Since the full story does not exist, we rate it higher than we might if we had the whole thing in pristine condition. This was another example of six episodes being too long for the story, and a wee bit too much padding. That said, the audio remake from Big Finish, complete with Eight asking something along the lines of "Haven't we done this before?" to Romana, is miles better. I have the 3-disc DVD of this, and will give it another go one of these days. Maybe I can track down the Ian Levine version as well, and see if that reconstruction holds up better?

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