Episode 91

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This is it! The modern era of Doctor Who is finally here, and Dan and Mike have no shortage of things to say about "Rose," Christopher Eccleston, Billie Piper, and fandom's reaction to the return of their favorite show. [ 1:44:32 || 50.4 MB ]

To listen, click here: http://www.earth-2.net/podcasts/biggerontheinside/episodes/bigger_091.mp3

[Andrew Trowbridge]

Just finished listening to #91 - great stuff, as usual!

One detail that people seemed to miss at the time in the "Eccleston Quits!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" stuff, is this...

On BBC1, 'Rose' was broadcast at 7pm, but on the same day there was a half-hour documentary called 'Doctor Who: A New Dimension' shown at 5.25pm, that was a general overview of the series' history.

This documentary was narrated by a certain David Tennant!

So, David was associated with a 'Doctor Who'-based project, before any of Chris' episodes had actually been shown... Interesting...

[Missy]

Hadn't Tennant also recorded minor roles for the Big Finish Doctor Who dramas?

[Andrew Trowbridge]

Yes, plus he`d done a minor appearance in the BBC website story 'Scream Of The Shalka'.

But this documentary was done by the 'Doctor Who Confidential' team and thus signed off by Russell T Davies and co, which seems more than a little coincidental...

The last day of filming for Chris was 5th March, 'Rose' and the documentary were shown on 26th March (but obviously David had to record the narration before that!),..

There was speculation on 30th March that Chris would not do Series Two and this was confirmed on 31st March. The reports from 30th March linked David's name with the role and David was officially announced as the next Doctor on 15th April.

But there's also the production of 'The Quatermass Experiment' shown on 2nd April in which Jason Fleming deliberately changed a line so that he could call David's character 'Doctor' - it was clearly a done deal by then.

(David actually recorded his part of the regeneration sequence on 21st April)

[Donomark]

In all of the fan ragequits I've experienced firsthand (One More Day, Miles Morales, Identity Crisis, all three main Batgirls, DC New 52, Before Watchmen) I'm wondering if any of them were a violent as what Dan talked about when Eccelston's departing was leaked. I don't recall DEATH THREATS, but I may have missed them.

[Badhead]

Not allways a fan of Murry gold myself. But at least we got rid of Keff McCulloch

[SteveJRogers]

Caught the Ross clips, and it's not just during the action figure bit, Eccleston looks like he is barely tolerating Ross' schtick the whole time. It's like "Seriously, this is it? I'm now forced to put up with twats like you going forward?"

Can't really come up with a great example off hand, but it'd be like if someone who just didn't get or enjoy the humor of a Leno or Letterman or O'Brien or Fallon, or anyone of the late night circut and pretty much did the bare minimum to play along with them because "that is what is going to be part of doing this damn role."

[Flashfan1]

New logo... cool. What made you change the iTunes art and logo? Oh and great episode.

[Venneh]

That's the NuWho font, is it not?

[Dan]

The last day of filming for Chris was 5th March, 'Rose' and the documentary were shown on 26th March (but obviously David had to record the narration before that!),..

There was speculation on 30th March that Chris would not do Series Two and this was confirmed on 31st March. The reports from 30th March linked David's name with the role and David was officially announced as the next Doctor on 15th April.

Tennant said on the Nerdist podcast that he was approached to be the Tenth Doctor at a point when "Dalek" was filmed but not finished in post-production, as RTD buttered him up by showing him an early cut before actually offering him the role. Behind the scenes, it was known for quite some time that Eccleston was leaving. It just went public a lot earlier than anyone anticipated.

In all of the fan ragequits I've experienced firsthand (One More Day, Miles Morales, Identity Crisis, all three main Batgirls, DC New 52, Before Watchmen) I'm wondering if any of them were a violent as what Dan talked about when Eccelston's departing was leaked. I don't recall DEATH THREATS, but I may have missed them.

I have literally never seen anything that even came close. This was the ugliest thing I have ever seen.

Caught the Ross clips, and it's not just during the action figure bit, Eccleston looks like he is barely tolerating Ross' schtick the whole time. It's like "Seriously, this is it? I'm now forced to put up with twats like you going forward?"

That's Eccleston for you. He goes on chat shows because sometimes the job requires him to, but he doesn't enjoy it and doesn't try too hard to pretend that he does.

New logo... cool. What made you change the iTunes art and logo?

Mike, that iTunes art is GORGEOUS.

[Kscriv]

You mentioned shows that have had time away and somewhat unexpectedly come back leading to fans getting swept up with anticipation. How about Korra. While there was nowhere near the amount of waiting it would still fit with genre show with a great fanbase that gets to indulge some more.

[KnightWing]

In film, you've got Star Wars.

[slothian]

The first person to die in New Who? A guy called Wilson........

Good episode, chaps. I remember watching 'Rose' when it debuted during my Easter break from university and was entertained, but I missed most of the remainder of the season due to not having access to a television at uni. Still, Richard and my sister were both fans so it stayed on my radar.

Billie Piper was indeed a pop star between 97-99, but she put that on ice whilst indulging in marriage with prominent British DJ/TV presenter Chris Evans. After that ended she got small acting roles which led upto Doctor Who. Whilst major populist casting choices are annoying at the outset (also see: Catherine Tate, Kylie Minogue, Katherine Jenkins), most tend to end up doing a pretty decent job. Apart from Kylie Minogue.

[Badhead]

The first person to die in New Who? A guy called Wilson........

Good episode, chaps. I remember watching 'Rose' when it debuted during my Easter break from university and was entertained, but I missed most of the remainder of the season due to not having access to a television at uni. Still, Richard and my sister were both fans so it stayed on my radar.

Billie Piper was indeed a pop star between 97-99, but she put that on ice whilst indulging in marriage with prominent British DJ/TV presenter Chris Evans. After that ended she got small acting roles which led upto Doctor Who. Whilst major populist casting choices are annoying at the outset (also see: Catherine Tate, Kylie Minogue, Katherine Jenkins), most tend to end up doing a pretty decent job. Apart from Kylie Minogue.

Who could forget her hit single

[Guest]

No lie, I was listening to "She Wants You" back in 98 before I'd ever heard of Doctor Who.

Still hate Rose as a character though. Hate hate HATE.

[Donomark]

Thinking about it, one thing that could be compared to "Rose" as a return of a beloved geek character to the masses is the 89 Batman movie. Quality aside, the way the chraracter is presented to new audiences without an immediate backstory given in the first 90 seconds and just watching him do what he does is pretty cool. I love the shot of the TARDIS as Rose walks away from the burning department store. It's inconspicuousness to the untrained eye makes it pretty theatrical in a neat sort of way.

[JasonC]

Who could forget her hit single

I wish I could. But People Keep Reminding Me It Exists! What I need is some sort of Time Machine, so I can go back and destroy all copies of this when the Music company sent it out for general release.

[Missy]

New logo... cool. What made you change the iTunes art and logo? Oh and great episode.

Thanks! Before episode 90, Dan sent me a Bigger on the Inside logo in the Smith-era font, and suggested it be used for episodes 91 and beyond. New era, new logo. It made perfect sense to me, so, while editing BOTI 91, I made the new iTunes art.

That's the NuWho font, is it not?

It's the NuNuWho font.

Mike, that iTunes art is GORGEOUS.

Thanks, Dan!

You mentioned shows that have had time away and somewhat unexpectedly come back leading to fans getting swept up with anticipation. How about Korra. While there was nowhere near the amount of waiting it would still fit with genre show with a great fanbase that gets to indulge some more.

Very good point, and you could add Futurama in there too. But, as devoted as fans of those shows are, Doctor Who fans are on another level when it comes to loving what we love. I'll let Dan speak to that, though, because he knows more about the fan presence of the 1980s, 90s, and 2000s than I do.

In film, you've got Star Wars.

That might be the closest thing you can compare it to.

Still hate Rose as a character though. Hate hate HATE.

Write in with an anti-Rose rant. There are plenty of Rose haters out there, so it'll be to their liking. Plus, it might start a dialog with the Rose lovers.

Thinking about it, one thing that could be compared to "Rose" as a return of a beloved geek character to the masses is the 89 Batman movie. Quality aside, the way the chraracter is presented to new audiences without an immediate backstory given in the first 90 seconds and just watching him do what he does is pretty cool. I love the shot of the TARDIS as Rose walks away from the burning department store. It's inconspicuousness to the untrained eye makes it pretty theatrical in a neat sort of way.

The way The Doctor and Batman are reintroduced, that being by their actions and with little to no explanation, are very similar. The reason I'm hesitant to go beyond that, however, is because Batman has never left the public eye. Between comic books, cartoons, toys, and clothing, Batman hasn't faded away like Doctor Who did.

Now, that said, I think a comparison between the two can be made. In 1989, most older fans of Batman remembered him as the fun, colorful, often campy Adam West. Then, along came the morose, dark, deadly serious Michael Keaton, turning the world's perceptions of Batman on its head. When Doctor Who went off the air in 1989, it had become darker, true, but it was still a silly program filled with ridiculously colorful monsters. So when it came back in 2005, I can see why fans of the original program might have been put off by the "I'm the last of the Time Lords" melodrama.

[Dan]

You mentioned shows that have had time away and somewhat unexpectedly come back leading to fans getting swept up with anticipation. How about Korra. While there was nowhere near the amount of waiting it would still fit with genre show with a great fanbase that gets to indulge some more.

Very good point, and you could add Futurama in there too. But, as devoted as fans of those shows are, Doctor Who fans are on another level when it comes to loving what we love. I'll let Dan speak to that, though, because he knows more about the fan presence of the 1980s, 90s, and 2000s than I do.

In film, you've got Star Wars.

That might be the closest thing you can compare it to.

Star Wars is probably the closest thing I can think of. The only difference is that THE ENTIRE WORLD was excited for Phantom Menace in 1999 thanks to Lucas' truly superhuman hype machine, and the longtime fans' over-the-top glee was only a part of it. However, I would say that the longtime fans' excitement for the return of Star Wars after 16 years was pretty similar to what was going on for Doctor Who fandom's excitement in 2005 (a 16 year wait as well, come to think of it).

[JasonC]

Star Wars is probably the closest thing I can think of. The only difference is that THE ENTIRE WORLD was excited for Phantom Menace in 1999 thanks to Lucas' truly superhuman hype machine, and the longtime fans' over-the-top glee was only a part of it.

Then they watched it. And the screams of horror and despair began as the abomination known as Jar Jar Binks was unleashed upon an unsuspecting world.

[NDCDN]

Certainly there is no way to compare Billy Pipers pop career to that of Justin Bieber. Maybe someone like Aaron Cater would be closer. A few hits years before but nothing you can really remember. By the time she got this gig she was only remembered for being married to Chris Evans who was at that time a huge star in the UK.

Not a fan of Rose (the episode or the character) and the final nail was when in a confidential for the season 4 finale she said she needed to watch her old episodes on DVD in order to see how to play the character. She isn't Marlon Brando. She just needs to hit her mark, say the words and smile. Can't even do that convincingly.

It is ages since I saw one of her episodes and I can't see that changing anytime soon. Hard to think of a real stand-out episode. They are all a bit average and for me a big part of that is the fact that she is in them. My least favorite of the nu-who companions by a mile.

[SteveJRogers]

That's Eccleston for you. He goes on chat shows because sometimes the job requires him to, but he doesn't enjoy it and doesn't try too hard to pretend that he does.

To further Mike's comment about seeing his soul die a little when he saw his action figure, well to borrow your line about William Russell, you could actually see it as the moment Eccleston quit the show!

Trying to think of other situations like it. The problem is with American series, very rarely, with the exception of premium cable channels, will a season still be completely in the can when the show literally premieres. And usually when it is announced that an actor is leaving, they usually give enough time to work out the exit before the season ends, or the actor will gracelously come in for the start of the next season to close out the character. A Charlie Sheen/Two And A Half Men situation is very rare.

Yes he did do his regeneration, so it wasn't akin to Sylvester McCoy in a blonde wig, but it is still kind of unbelievable to think that the show was barely a week old and it was announced that the lead would not return for the second season!