RSS Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 Matt Smith's first season as The Doctor winds down as he, Amy, River, and a returned Rory must save all of creation from an unknown force ("The Pandorica Opens" / "The Big Bang"). You decide: is it Bill & Ted logic, Bugs Bunny logic, or both? [ 1:09:46 || 33.8 MB ]To listen, click here: http://www.earth-2.net/podcasts/biggerontheinside/episodes/bigger_124.mp3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damndirtyape Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 As much as I love this two parter. Can anyone explain to me how River is able to Leave her Tardis themed Diary at Amy's and Rory's wedding, when without the doctor she would not have existed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 I thought about that too, but forgot to mention it.I'm guessing, either Steven Moffat hadn't quite worked out who River was yet. (There, he used her when he shouldn't have.) Or, because she's Time Lord, River is able to exist in (what would be for her) an alternate reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightWing Posted September 2, 2013 Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 If the Doctor never existed, Earth would have blown up a long time ago. So clearly it's not a clear-cut alternate reality-type deal like in "Turn Left." Or it's a paradox. River was able to exist because the Doctor did, indeed, come back. It's just like the Doctor himself looping through time earlier in the story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damndirtyape Posted September 2, 2013 Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 But he was bouncing back and forth in time early on in the episode because of Rivers Time wrist gadget thing and only before he sealed up the cracks in the universe. After he was gone Amy's universe was her quiet little village life having never met the doctor. River should not be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilg%re Posted September 2, 2013 Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 Thought i'd post this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG9Z5djon7w Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightWing Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 But he was bouncing back and forth in time early on in the episode because of Rivers Time wrist gadget thing and only before he sealed up the cracks in the universe. After he was gone Amy's universe was her quiet little village life having never met the doctor. River should not be there. Except that the Doctor did come back, thus River was able to exist. The fact that River caused it means that it's a causality loop of sorts, but that's exactly the kind of thing that the Doctor was doing earlier with his own time loops. The logic works itself out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damndirtyape Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 But he was bouncing back and forth in time early on in the episode because of Rivers Time wrist gadget thing and only before he sealed up the cracks in the universe. After he was gone Amy's universe was her quiet little village life having never met the doctor. River should not be there. Except that the Doctor did come back, thus River was able to exist. The fact that River caused it means that it's a causality loop of sorts, but that's exactly the kind of thing that the Doctor was doing earlier with his own time loops. The logic works itself out. Hmmm. I still find it a little weak. In my mind The Doctor sealed the cracks erasing him from Amy's existence. Only when she remembered him, did he and his world come back. No one remembered River for her to still be around. Not until the Doctor and the Tardis appeared did some of his world start to find its way back. Look at how Rory suddenly realises "oh yeah the Doctor, how did we forget him. Having said all that I forgive all of it just to have that something borrowed, something blue speech. A truly inspired idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightWing Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 There's one other thing, too. Rory disappeared into the cracks in time, but nothing else seemed to change (aside from Amy's memory) and the Doctor still remembered him. The whole deal with the cracks seems to be a little loose. I mean, Amy's parents were sucked into the crack too, but Amy was still alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damndirtyape Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 True. I was under the assumption though because of the Doctors complex relationship with time only he could seal the cracks in time, so Rory or anyone else falling in wouldn't change all that much. Even the Weeping angels and there time anomalies could only slow it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankymole Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 As much as I love this two parter. Can anyone explain to me how River is able to Leave her Tardis themed Diary at Amy's and Rory's wedding, when without the doctor she would not have existed. Perhaps she fell through a crack when the TARDIS blew up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 She's part Time Lord, so I think she can exists ever-so-slightly outside of her own timeline. Meaning, the diary exists, but it's blank; she's a paradox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankymole Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 True; and the Doctor exists as an idea (even when he's "officially dead" later on, too). Maybe there is some link with Time Lords "in many ways, having the same mind" as per the Master/Doctor link, and the TL's on Gallifrey having a link even through their time-bubble to The Master (and he to the Doctor, and the Doctor to River, etc, not to mention Romana in E-Space perhaps!) so it's impossible to erase every vestige of them from the universe. There are even the communications-cubes in House's blister-universe, which operate telepathically. So if Amy reboots the entire universe from an idea/memory, maybe River was the memory of a memory (being her daughter, perhaps a fairly strong subconscious one)... or something. A lot less to animate than a universe, anyway. If the ruddy Daleks can survive annihilation in Time Wars over and over again then the Doctor deserves to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stavros Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Huh. Whilst just getting around to this episode I had a thought. The Romans are made up from Amy's memories/experiences right? Hence Rory being one of them. So this Rory is actually the version that Amy knew and not Rory in his own right, more of an echo. So him choosing to stay by her side for a thousand years isn't the action of Rory, it's Amy's ego believing that he would do that for her! So she believed he was weak enough to fail and let her die, but devoted enough to stay by her side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightWing Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Except that the memories are tied to the actual person that got lost inside the crack. The Doctor got pulled back into existence the same way, but he's still the same Doctor he was before, not limited to Amy's memories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stavros Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Was this Rory drawn from the crack? I thought that just like the other Romans the Autons based him from Amy's mind. I'm not sure they explained it that well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightWing Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 That's a good point, although in the episode they use the same logic. The Doctor tells Amy that just as she pulled Rory out of nowhere, she can do the same for her parents. I think the logic is that Auton-Rory was made because Amy (or Amy's psychic memories left in her bedroom that the Autons scanned) inadvertently pulled him out. So he's both an Auton creation and the real Rory from the crack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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