Mr. Mxyzptlk

I'm actually pretty sure that the voice actress for Martha is the same for Leslie. The only upside to Martha's bland and unexplored character is that, seeing as how she hasn't properly been fleshed out, there is a whole lot of potential for Martha to become interesting and/or important in stories to come.

Okay, I'm back to the podcast and am listening to the animation criticisms on 'Eternal Youth'. Right on with Efrem Zimbalist Jr. praise. Ha, Ras Al Ghul gone retarded. Another edit: Starting up 'Perchance to Dream'. Can't wait. I've been listening to James' love of the episode (and I completely agree) up to the issues with Martha Wayne's apparent insignificance, and I'm very interested by the complaint that Martha is a very flat character (I'd list Thomas too, but that isn't what's being discussed at the moment, although it very well could be in a minute) in Bruce's dream world. At least Thomas gets a few words of conversation in with Bruce during the episode, but seriously, I think Martha's only line is 'Bruce!' when Bruce runs out of the house after smashing the TV. Even those who love the episode to death, I've found, aren't able to argue around the fact that Bruce's parents are poorly represented as being anything other than people who loaf around and play golf. Okay, this is kind of rambling so I'll resume listening. I'm probably not the comics buff that you guys are, but I've come across two very interesting Martha Wayne moments in recent memory. The first is in a famous Elseworlds tale, 'Arkham Asylum', which I think James mentioned on an earlier podcast which portrays Bruce as having an Oedipus complex, which means basically that he was sexually attracted to her and her death turned him into a sexually repressed maniac. The other is, I'm pretty sure, in Jeph Loeb's and Tim Sale's 'Haunted Knight', which is an anthology of three Batman stories. I forget the context, but I remember a flashback dealing with Bruce's insistence that his mother wear pearls to the Zorro movie, which of course was the central object of desire for the gunman. So basically, even if there's not much insight into Martha Wayne's importance to Bruce, it's definitely an interesting way of conveying Bruce Wayne's guilt at his parents' death. >Gasp< Yoda (can't remember you're actual name at the moment because I'm so used to your username) has complaints. Well, so far I agree that the animation is very sub-par, but as for the fact that Bruce shouldn't look on in awe at Batman's capabilities, I think it's pretty cool and completely believable. Even if he knows what he can do, this is still a once in a lifetime moment to see himself in action from his Bruce Wayne persona (which, as the episode somewhat argues, is something of a separate entity from his Batman persona). I can see your problems, but I personally think it's a neat little moment. Oh crap, missed out on your complaint that Bruce wouldn't be distracted by ANYTHING if he's determined to find out what kind of conspiracy is going on here. Okay, now that makes you complaint a whole lot more valid and hard to refute. Never thought about that myself. Okay, now about you're complaint about Bruce blaming Batman. Well, I'll probably just turn to my idol Jay Allman again for his incredibly deep and psychological commentary on this episode and put in bold the part where he justifies Batman's blaming himself. Here goes: My explanation is that Batman is the only thing that doesn't make any sense at all. I mean, just assume that his parents never died and everything makes sense. That is what life would be like for Bruce in an alternate reality, right? But in a world such as this, why would Batman even exist? It's the one thing that doesn't fit, so that's why I think Bruce targets him.

Finally! I've been waiting forever for this. Reading this thread, I'm assuming 'Perchance to Dream' is pretty well-liked but pretty harshly nitpicked (:smile:), but 'Laughing Fish' is getting some dislike (), but I'll just have to wait and see. Starting on 'Eternal Youth' right now and right off the bat I'm glad this is getting some negativity. Post will be edited as I get deeper in, as usual. Oh yeah, I'm psyched that the movies and 'Teen Titans' is getting covered. Glad you're going all the way on this.

Well that's sort of the thing. I do use A-F on a regular basis, so whenever numbers come up as a means of scoring I automatically equate them with their A-F counterparts, which would be 7 as average and so on.

Yeah, I completely understand Daggett's flaws, but the fact that he is completely flawed makes for an uninteresting dilemma and missed potential. If Daggett was portrayed with more ambiguity, like most Batman villains, the plot could have made for an interesting conflict by asking the question, 'is Daggett right or wrong? Does the end result of what he is trying to accomplish justify the selfish means by which he does so?' I'm all for Daggett eventually coming out as the villain, but it would have made for a far more dramatic episode had a real heavy moral weight been involved like that. I'm not saying Daggett was right, but the fact that he is so wrong really kills what could have been a really interesting choice between, as in the quoted review, the preferences of the community and the prescription of the developers. The latter will obviously turn out wrong, Batman will prefer to leave Crime Alley as it is and expose Daggett for what he was established as in 'Feat of Clay' and everything will return to the status quo, but it would end up being far more ambiguous and thus interesting predicament, as is the case in most episodes ('Heart of Ice', 'Feat of Clay', 'Two-Face', etc. come to mind); I'm aware that an episode doesn't need to have some big conflict and can end up being very effective good vs evil fare, but with such a serious matter at hand in the episode, it would have been nice to have seen something not so completely one-sided and opinionated, even if I do agree with the stance myself. And as for the long-term effects of removing the citizens to reestablish the community, true, the area would be cured of a few symptoms, but the street crime would most likely continue elsewhere. If we can assume that the realistic world of Batman continues along such realistic logic, and take into account all sorts of real-world statistics, and even the whole intention of doing good for a community, selfish corporate benefit aside, is exposed as futile, it is a pretty good comparison to Batman, whose entire goal of crime eradication is futile in and of itself. He knows that the crooks he locks up will get back out and the cycle will continue, which is the same predicament with Crime Alley. Remodeling and everything could appease a few symptoms, but the plague of crime in Gotham will always continue despite. Maybe I'm wrong to judge something not by its own criteria, but simply by how I would have preferred the way it turned out, but still, Roland Daggett complaints aside, the episode itself isn't very interesting (which is probably why I'd rather a more intense dilemma) in my opinion. It takes a few needless walks down Batman's past, all of which we already know, features a horribly cliched ticking time bomb, and the whole ordeal is pretty badly plotted, with most of the episode being Batman's dealing with excessive distraction before any real plot progress is made. Batman's inability to touch a legally clean but obviously morally bankrupt man like Daggett (almost a pseudo Superman/Lex Luthor kind of affair) is what gives the ending some juice, but seeing as how Daggett's scheme is foiled and Crime Alley is never really bothered in the future, you don't get the sense that Daggett's slipping away from punishment is an ominous affair that gives Batman any reason to be enraged. All the other crooks Batman locks up, as is commonly noted throughout the comics, end up escaping prison anyway, and the cycle always ends up repeating itself. It seems that Daggett's evasion of punishment really only means that Batman will have to avoid that cycle. After all is said and done, Batman saved the day, but it ended up being a seriously long and drawn-out affair in an episode that had more room to fill. I guess it's simply a case of 'agreeing to disagree'. I personally find the entire case of over-the-top Wonderland hide-out and instantaneously suited up Wonderland lackeys to be excusable; it's all meant to convey Tetch's descent into madness and how far he's gone to construct his own little world, so I'm willing to accept it as necessary to Tetch's full transformation into the Mad Hatter. Exactly what I was getting across. Me being pretty young and all, my memories of 'Batman: The Animated Series' all come from watching the Cartoon Network reruns during the mid-90's at the age of 5 or 6. So I'm all for sophisticated analysis, but when it's all said and done, the reason I ever got hooked on the show was because I loved how cool and awesome it was to see a superhero fight the bad guys. Your reviews pretty much mirror how fun and nostalgic the show is, which is why it's such a refreshing experience. I see the system as being reflective of the school grading system, which has it so 7-10 is a D to an A, and anything below is an F. So by that logic, I see 7's as being average and 6's as being moderate failures.

Juggernaut to DC. Seeing as how, to my knowledge, Xavier is the only one with the mental powers to take down the Juggernaut, it'd be awesome to see all the DC heavy hitters trying to stop the Unstoppable without having the means to really take him down (unless of course there's a DC character with mental powers good enough as Xavier's, which I doubt).

Finished it up today. Thoughts: 'Apointment in Crime Alley'- I'm starting to get adjusted to your rating system (I always go by 7 as being average whereas you have 5 as being average, so when normally a 6 would mean below average for me, it'd be above average for you), and I'd probably rate this one a little less, mainly because the episode could have easily made for an interesting dilemma if Daggett was to be taken more seriously than 'generic evil mastermind'. Daggett does have a point; rebuilding Crime Alley could pave the way for a drop in crime, and what I find pretty ironic is the way the episode portrays Crime Alley itself. For a place notorious for street crime, I find it interesting that it's portrayed as a victimized neighborhood; despite all the dramatized talk of thugs and muggers, all you see are the defenseless residents being hurt by the lackeys of an evil corporation. Surely, Daggett's means of helping Park Row regain its footing are criminal in and of themselves, but I don't see how Batman could possibly deny that there's a chance that Daggett is onto something. There's such a potential for ambiguity, but it all ends up being nothing more than 'evil madman vs the good of the underclass'. Basically, this excerpt from one of my favorite B:TAS reviewers sums my thoughts up best: Let's see, 'Mad as a Hatter' is a favorite of mine. I don't mind at all the way it turned out. Yes, Jervis became a madman born of his own insecurities, when once he was a nice and empathetic man who simply wanted someone to love him. But that's what makes it such a tragic episode and what makes the Mad Hatter such a perfect Batman villain. Just like most of the others, Tetch starts out with an envisioning of what he wants his life to be and it's nothing more than having a romantic relationship with a woman. However, he can't have life that way were he to go on living the way he does. Instead of accepting his beloved's choice and moving on, Tetch refuses to accept life if it's not on his terms, under his control (so mirrors the moment in 'House and Garden' when Poison Ivy state something along the lines of, "All I wanted was a family, as long as it was on my terms." So does Mr. Freeze when he refuses to give his wife proper medical treatment in 'Sub-Zero', instead stating that he wishes to treat her his own way). And thus he goes mad, cheating a woman out of her life so as to adapt the world to his own ideal and personal Wonderland. And that's when he loses sympathy; he could have been sympathetic had we seen him accept his loss for what it is and sadly walk away, but instead he becomes despicable in his actions, which I find to be an almost perfect mirror to Batman. We like Batman for doing the right thing in the wake of a tragedy, and thus we have nothing but sympathy when he reminisces over his parents. But we end up despising Tetch for doing the entirely wrong thing in the wake of a (lesser) tragedy. Anyway, I suppose the main complaint was with the over-the-top set pieces and cartoon action thriller the episode became. Yes, I understand, but it's probably mandatory that every episode have some fight scenes to please the kiddies. But then again you could say that the ridiculous third act undermined the serious nature and the tragic element of the episode, which was probably what you were getting at in the podcast. Well in my opinion, the Hatter's final lines when crushed by the Jabberwock, 'would not, could not, would not, could not, would not join the dance' completely hits home with retaining the tragedy and sympathy of the beginning. There' s so much you can take out of it: it's obviously sad, with Tetch coming to terms with the fact that his relationship with Alice was meant to crumble, but what makes it so great is the fact that it's a line from 'Alice and Wonderland', which means that the line both shows us Tetch's sadness, but reminds us of his new insane persona by conveying his sadness by means of a line from the book around which he built his fantasy life. It's also ironic that he initially used the line to charm Alice on their first date, and yet now is meant to mark her departure from his life. It's a perfect ending that more than compensates for the cartoony third act, I think. 'Dreams in Darkness' is an episode I don't make much of. It's just a fun, twisted episode that really lacks a lot of substance; Scarecrow really has no motive and the potential for deep exploration of Batman's character was far less carried out than in 'Perchance to Dream' and other such great episodes. But hey, the dream sequences look really cool and are very stylistically rendered even if there's not much underlying meaning to them (Batman constantly relives the moment he lost his parents and he's afraid of being consumed by the other crazies he locks up; not much new info there). And Scarecrow's escape from his heavily guarded cell is most certainly a plot hole which never got any type of explanation. Personally, I prefer 'Fear of Victory' as a Scarecrow episode, but at least this was better than 'Nothing to Fear'. Closing thoughts. What I like about 'World's Finest Podcast' is that it isn't so much about intense analysis about character development and plot structure and the like, which is what I'm accustomed to. It's more of a fun and refreshing place where two fans just spew out random comments about the little things that are so often overlooked in most critical reviews; you guys are more inclined to make comments like 'But if you notice here; Batman is slowly getting more ticked off...' or 'I don't really think Batman should have assumed it was just a tranquilizer dart. The Batman I know would always be more careful' or 'This is obviously a Bill Finger reference', etc. I think it's a whole lot of fun. Great job and can't wait for the next episode; it's got three of my all time favorites: 'Perchance to Dream', 'Robin's Reckoning', and 'The Laughing Fish' (best Joker episode ever).

I'm in the middle of the 'Fear of Victory' review and I don't think the point of the fear toxin (at least in this particular episode) was to bring fears to the surface. Since it builds on adrenaline and therefore excitement, I saw it as taking what would normally be fun and exhilarating for a person and subverting it into fearfulness, so I didn't see it as contradicting Robin's usual comfort around heights and his childhood as an acrobat; I personally thought the episode was trying to allude to his experience with heights. Seeing as how Brian Rogers (I'm pretty sure that was his name) is incredibly skilled at football and has no real fear of it, he still ended up being nervous and afraid of the other players (the monsters thing was goofy, but what the hey) because that's when his adrenaline rush would kick in, so the same with Robin, who is normally comfortable and exhilarated around heights, would end up having the excitement of heights transformed into fear. Now, it's obvious that the fear toxin worked differently than it usually does, but I think it is a bit more grounded in reality for it to feed off of adrenaline than for it to magically penetrate the human psyche and bring fears to life. But whether you prefer one version of the toxin or the other or find one as being more true to the comics, I think that it was pretty clear that the toxin in this episode was not the same as usual and was not meant to exaggerate already existent fears but rather change excitement to fear. Personally, I think it's pretty neat that Scarecrow would have variations on his toxins as opposed to simply one version. Honestly not trying to be a nitpicking jerk, just offering my interpretation to see if it could possibly sway you from disliking the episode's fear toxin portrayal. Loving the other comments so far. I'll probably post more as I get deeper in to the episode. Edit: On 'Clock King' now. Completely agree that Fugate shouldn't be able to know Batman's fight speed. But I think what's even more ridiculous is that even if he knows how fast Batman punches, that doesn't ensure at all that he'd be able to dodge something that fast. It's like saying, 'I know exactly how fast the Batmobile is; that means I'll be able to outrun it.' I mean, knowing the time of something doesn't automatically mean that you should be able to overcome it. It sort of ties in with what you were saying about Fugate's impossibly keen physical skill.

Disappointed by Vendetta getting sixes, but otherwise quite satisfied.

Anyone remember 'Maid Of Honor', when Batman interrogates the Kaznian mercenary? The criminal speaks in Kaznian with the subtitles: "You can't understand a word I'm saying, and even if you could I wouldn't say anything." Batman starts speaking Kaznian with subtitles: "I can...(Face becomes incredible dark)...And you will." One of my favorite Batman moments ever. Surprised no one's mentioned Dan Turpin's death in 'Apokalips...Now! pt 2'. Easily one of the top five most heart-wrenching moments of the entire DCAU.