Captain America 3


Koete

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The only gripe I have is the shaky cam during the fights. That needs to stop being a thing. I couldn't see what was going on half the time during hand to hand fights.

That bothered me too. All the superhero battles were really good so obviously they had a handle on action, but the hand-to-hand fights were just a blur.

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This film is reminiscent in a lot of ways to the Dark Knight for me, in that the hype going in was enormous. Like 2008 I ended up getting seats in the front row, so the action at the beginning was very difficult to make out. Like the Dark Knight, I walked out thinking I need to see it again to better obtain my thoughts. There were a lot of parts I really enjoyed, mainly the general disagreements between the Avengers.

The airport fight is a bit weird for me because up to that point the movie is very serious, then the film does a complete tonal shift and it goes from being Winter Soldier to Age of Ultron. It's almost a cartoon. Once Rhodey goes down it suddenly gets dark again. Also, the Zemo/Bucky conspiracy kept getting in the way of my Civil War movie, and I had a hard time processing that.

But I'm so happy with how it ended. Once it was revealed Zemo was behind everything I was really worried that big beatdown in the trailers was going to be due to some stupid mis-understanding. But it was brutal. This is easily my favorite Stark performance by far, because he was truly, understandably pissed.

I think another viewing will definitely better form my opinion of the movie. Right now I liked it, but I didn't love it as it wasn't consistently coherent plot-wise to me.

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The first hour was turgid and boring as fuck.

The second hour was brilliant and I loved it.

The last half hour was like "Oh yeah, remember how boring the first hour was? Let's do that again."

Still probably the fifth best Marvel film.

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Here's my MCU rating rundown:

Great

Guardians of the Galaxy

Captain America: Winter Soldier

 

Really good (not great)

Captain America

Iron Man

 

OK

Captain America: Civil War

Thor: The Dark World

The Avengers

 

Utter dogshit

Ant-Man

Iron Man 2

Incredible Hulk

Avengers: Age of Ultron

Thor

Iron Man 3

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This was the first time I've really felt the length of a Marvel movie (but that could be because I went to see it at nine after a long day of work).

Overall, really liked this.

  •  I need the murder buddies road trip please
  • This is clearly torn between being a direct continuation of Winter Soldier and "ah fuck, we have to shoehorn in AoU and the rest of the cast because Civil War". The recontextualization of Civil War makes sense in this context, but tbh, I would've rather'd this be a two part movie, because they're clearly trying to stuff a lot into the run time. 
  • Tony why the hell are you dragging the inexperienced 15 year old into a fight with the goddam Winter Soldier Tony no stop that
  • Everyone managed to get a bit of a character arc, but hey, it would be real nice to have a film where the women actually talk to each other just saying
  • MAN they are really going in hard for the CAP IS TOTES NOT GAY thing. (Personally read him as bi, but that's just me.)
  • Honestly, the airport fight scene, as stupid as it was, was actually a ton of fun (Giant Man! Spider-Man! so much bantering you guys!!), so I'm willing to let it slide.
  • Yo Zemo, did you not know what YouTube was, or did you just really need those airline miles? Like, I get the desire to watch them beat each other up in front of you, and it tied in nicely to the VENGEANCE thing for Black Panther, but still, fucking YouTube man. 
  • The kid's got me excited for Spider-Man, god help me. Let's see where that goes.
  • Holy shit we had three black superheroes with significant screentime, none of whom got dead at the end of the film!
  • So here for Black Panther, and I REALLY hope we get more awesome ladies/Dora Milanje with him.
  • Still had lots of fun, and actually had my boyfriend, who rarely does movies or superhero films, liking it, so hey.
Edited by Venneh
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Here's my thoughts:

  • The first hour is fucking boring. Almost entirely. Poor pacing and terrible scriptwriting mars this film throughout.
  • The re-contextualizing of Civil War did not go far enough and the third act proves it. Basically everything that the Avengers were being sanctioned for was the government or Stark's fault. But, by all means, it only has to be convenient for the plot.
  • Speaking of: when will Marvel have a villain that isn't a complete fucking mark? Zemo and Crossbones, the only villains in this film, were simply there to move the plot forward.
  • They might have well just said, Gwyneth didn't want to be in the movie.
  • Hey, learn to direct an action sequence please? The airport fight was the only one that looked halfway decent.
  • The trailer made the film look like it was filmed 100% in the same parking garage. The film itself made it look like it was filmed in that parking garage for about 70% of the film. 25% of it was in a mall. The rest was establishing shots of whatever bullshit country they were in at the time.
  • What the fuck was with the other Winter Soldiers? WHY WOULD YOU INTRODUCE THAT IDEA AND NOT FUCKING USE THEM?
  • Furthermore: BUCKY KILLED MOM AND DAD! WAHHH!!!! as bad as Joker killing the Waynes. That was pure evidence of the screenwriters running out of ideas.
  • The last half hour was as boring as the first hour.

ON the other hand:

  • Spider-Man and Black Panther made the movie great when they were onscreen which, on BP's side, was a decent amount. I loved Spider-Man and loved Aunt May even more, for...reasons. In fact, this is the first time I'm looking forward to more Tony Stark in a Marvel movie since I was let down by Iron Man 2.
  • Really excited to see more of Wakanda as long as it doesn't turn into the US wanting Bucky back. I hope they forget about that character now. Let's have an all Wakandan Black Panther movie. No other Avengers please.
  • Giant Man? Fucking hell. It was a passing thought for me going into the movie, but I didn't actually count on it. Loved it. In fact, I loved Ant-Man in general even though I basically loathe his movie.

Overall 3/5

 

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Counterpoints:

  • They established the Stark kills back in Winter Soldier; they show up in the montage of kills when computer Zola is monologuing. This is not a surprise in any way shape or form. (This also may be because I watched WS recently and remember that. Still.)
  • The Berlin fight scene and chase scene is clearly filmed for the entirety, that's some bullshit. 
  • I'm gonna let Jim take the point on Zemo (and also the other Winter Soldiers). Zemo doesn't put it on YouTube because
    • Zemo's endgame is suicide. There's no pivot after this.
    • It's personal. The Avengers took his family from him, so he's going to break up the family of the Avengers in retaliation. To do that requires an extraordinary set of circumstances and the heroes not on their A-game. The whole point is to provoke a disproportionate, passionate, violent response. For that, Zemo needs Cap, IM and the Soldier tired and far away from their friends and outside support. The way Zemo gets that is stringing them along with a very real threat of more Winter Soldiers.
    • Zemo's goal is to personally ensure the rending of the Avengers by his own hands, as close as possible to it as he can manage. Putting the footage on YouTube allows the Avengers to find it and give Iron Man perspective and support from professionals that can prepare him for what he'll see.
    • He'd prefer Iron Man to see the footage after Iron Man put his own friends in prison, had to watch War Machine be maimed by friendly fire and have Iron Man exhausted from the compromises moral and physical.
    • Zemo's arc is simply how far can one man go on a grudge? The answer is very far.
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  • Holy shit we had three black superheroes with significant screentime, none of whom got dead at the end of the film!

YASSSS

  • Everyone managed to get a bit of a character arc, but hey, it would be real nice to have a film where the women actually talk to each other just saying

 Technically Widow talked to Wanda at the very beginning via earphone but point taken

 Furthermore: BUCKY KILLED MOM AND DAD! WAHHH!!!! as bad as Joker killing the Waynes. That was pure evidence of the screenwriters running out of ideas.

They established the Stark kills back in Winter Soldier; they show up in the montage of kills when computer Zola is monologuing. This is not a surprise in any way shape or form. (This also may be because I watched WS recently and remember that. 

Yeah the Bucky revelation at the end was fairly obvious throughout the movie and also seeded in TWS. That's in no way an ass pull, I was hoping they wouldn't forget about that.

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Okay, I have my thoughts a little more in order than simply "It was okay."

The Good

  • The Action Scenes: Most of the action scenes in the movie were where it really came alive. The airport fight alone made the movie worth seeing. It's probably the best action scene in any Marvel film to date.
  • Spider-Man: Okay, I had hit the point where I could not care less about Spider-Man. Hell, I went into the movie, ready to roll my eyes when Spidey showed up. As is, I liked him a fair bit. We have a Spider-Man who looks like a high school student, who is intelligent, and can do the quipping without it feeling forced. Mind you, let's wait until the movie, see if they can do a good enough job with their toys then but, for the moment, I like this Spider-Man who has mainly been taking down thugs, doing mainly street level stuff, has had time to establish himself before fighting world threatening villains.
  • Bucky, Falcon, and Cap: Okay, keeping them all together because they were the best team of the movie. There's a part of me that feels like it was originally just going to be them as Team Cap at the airport because so little time goes into the rest of the team getting set up. I just liked the energy they all had together, the different elements to how they worked together and interacted. If it had just been the three of them against Tony, War Machine, and Widow, the Airport might have been less cool but it could have made for a more fun film overall.

The Bad

  • Tony: There is not a single moment in this entire movie where I thought Tony had more than a couple of dimensions. What we got was a Flanderization of a character that at least showed depth in the last few films. I get it, you feel guilty over everything. I get it, Pepper dumped your ass (Mind you, you also gave her control of your company so that has to be awkward as fuck). The big thing though is that you go on an entire rant about some kid you've never met before and how he died before because of you yet you then go and BLACKMAIL a high school kid to come and be your child soldier, fighting at least one guy you believe to be a remorseless killer? Yeah, that's pretty dumb.
  • Setting: I get why they had the accord in Geneva but when you take into account that many of the US based Avengers are able to cross international lines with little problem to get there for the big action scene, that does stretch the lines of belief. Like, if it's that easy to get the woman whose face is being used as the reasoning for an entire piece of legislation.
  • Zemo's Plan: Jesus Christ. Comic Book movies, we have a problem. That problem is called, "Hey, have you ever noticed how fucking contrived and intricate your villains's plans can get?" I miss the good old days of Poison Ivy deciding to wipe out humanity so plants can rule the earth. Now, we have villains whose plans involve flow charts that depend on people acting in very specific ways, some of which are completely contrary to how they would normally act, all so they will do the things that makes your plan succeed. Zemo's is no different which is a crying shame when you had something like Hydra Supersoldiers staring your right in the face and you go with Take Down the Avengers.
  • The Bloat: This movie was two and a half hours long. There is so much they could have cut and condensed in the first half and still kept a coherent a great movie. Part of this is probably down to Zemo's plan and setting up the pieces but still.

The Weird

  • Black Panther: Overall, I'm excited for the Black Panther movie BUT the fact that our hero was constantly trying to murder someone we as the audience knew to be innocent the entirety of this one? Kinda doesn't give a good impression. That said, I like nearly everything about the character and what has been established so far. Outside of Captain Marvel, this is the one that I'm probably most excited for.
  • The New Status Quo: Is it exciting, the idea of the Avengers as a clandestine group? Yeah but that doesn't change the fact that we're probably not going to be exploring that a ton until the next Avengers film. Look at the schedule. The only two films with an Avenger in it between now and then are Thor: Ragnarok (which will probably mainly concern itself with Asgard stuff) and Black Panther (which will probably focus on Wakanda). Ant-Man and The Wasp isn't until after the next Avengers film where, for all we know, the Status Quo gets reset again.
  • The McGuffin Accords: Taking into account that The Avengers were until the last Cap movie part of SHIELD, New York isn't exactly a good example to use because that was with sanctions. Hell, they failed to bring up that New York was going to get nuked. DC? Fails to point out that the giant carriers were going to murder a ton of people anyway. Even in this movie, yeah, Crossbones could have also blown himself up in the market place which would have been a larger deathtoll, not even including Cap. What I'm saying is that The McGuffin Accords are a good idea but how they get used in this movie was dumb and how they set them up? Even dumber and more meaningless since they've now alienated just about anyone who would be an Avenger in the process.
  • Black Widow: Outside of it being out of character for her to choose Tony's Side (and pointing it out in the movie doesn't change that), it feels more like they did it just to put her there as the one to keep Black Panther holding back at the airport.
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Here's my MCU rating rundown:

Great

Guardians of the Galaxy

Captain America: Winter Soldier

 

Really good (not great)

Captain America

Iron Man

 

OK

Captain America: Civil War

Thor: The Dark World

The Avengers

 

Utter dogshit

Ant-Man

Iron Man 2

Incredible Hulk

Avengers: Age of Ultron

Thor

Iron Man 3

Looking at this list I realize that I've only seen 4 of these, and based on the general reaction in this thread I don't feel like I'm missing anything.

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I don't think a single Marvel Studios film counts as a "bad" movie. Thor 2 is easily the least affecting film, but it's perfectly mediocre and watchable. Nothing in it to make anyone ragequit unless they were expecting the Second Coming or something. Thor (1) might be my favorite pre-Avengers Phase One movie. Iron Man 3's a better written movie than I had previous thought, but it's going against conventions also doubled as an Improv for RDJ, and I don't like whenever the MCU becomes a playground for him to just go nuts in. I also like Iron Man 2 okay. I love the final battle with War Machine. Ant Man's fine. Incredible Hulk's fine. I really Age of Ultron. It's a better written movie than the first Avengers and I like seeing the established team working together. I also really liked Ultron, even though I can see how his quips would be off putting.

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Black Widow: Outside of it being out of character for her to choose Tony's Side (and pointing it out in the movie doesn't change that), it feels more like they did it just to put her there as the one to keep Black Panther holding back at the airport.

See I really liked BW in this. Her loyalties were clearly torn and I liked how she didn't easily come to siding with Tony. Her friendship with Steve was also well established after developing in Winter Soldier.

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  • 2 weeks later...

What I liked:

 


--Spider-Man: Holy hell, was he ever amazing. (Pun fully intended)  The raw innocence and inexperience of his character, combined with the good-natured quipping made him the highlight of the movie for me.
--The airfield fight scene: The movie was worth the price of admission for this alone.
--Black Panther: I cannot wait to see where they take his character.
--Wanda and Vision: The teasing of their eventual relationship was well done.
--Ant-Man: I haven't seen Ant-Man yet, but now I want to.  He was highly entertaining.

What I didn't like:

 


--YOU KILLED [INSERT NAME HERE], IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT x 238792: Jesus Christ...can someone explain why they COMPLETELY glossed over the fact that every time the Avengers were in these huge battles that they were SAVING THE FUCKING WORLD???  What the fuck, did everyone have short-term memory loss (including Tony and Steve)?  If it wasn't for the Avengers, none of them would be there right now.  Period.  Yes, people died.  That's obvious.  It's going to happen when massive citywide or country-wide battles occur.  Would these people rather have been conquered/slaughtered by Loki or Ultron?  That irked the everloving shit out of me the entire movie and it caused me to remove an entire star from my grade.
--This wasn't a "Captain America" movie.  The first two in the Cap trilogy?  Absofuckinglutely.  But this one didn't focus on Cap enough to make it an actual Captain America film.  There were too many things going on with Panther, Tony's guilt crisis, Vision/Wanda, Tony recruiting Spider-Man, on and on.  Minor gripe, perhaps, but still annoying.
--Black Widow: Continuing the trend of just sticking her as a pseudo-love interest with another male character in lieu of actually doing anything noteworthy.  What are the future prospects for this character?
--How did Tony live after the final battle?  Steve shoved that shield straight into the arc reactor.  He should be dead as hell.  Especially given that they are out in the middle of Bumfuck, Siberia.  Who rescued him?
--Isn't Bucky's arm vibranium?  How did Tony blast the fucking thing off with an energy beam?

Overall, I did enjoy it and I'll probably get the DVD.  But it definitely had flaws, and I still say Winter Soldier blew it out of the water.

Edited by James D.
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-To one point, I get the complaint that the Avengers save more lives than they destroy. That being said, Ultron was still all Tony Stark's fucking fault.

-I don't know what you're saying about BW. How was she a pseudo-love interest for anyone?

-At the end of IM3 Tony got the Arc Reactor removed from his body. I imagine he either took Zemo's helicopter or rode with T'challa.

-I don't think it was ever stated Bucky's arm was vibranium. Is it in the comics?

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  • 2 weeks later...

Captain America 3? More like Avengers 2.5.

Am I the only one who thought that Cap was a complete asshole all the way through the film? I get that poor ol' Bucky has a bad rep and Zemo made him seem worse but I'm so over the 'but he's my fwiend' reasoning. 

I rooted for Tony Stark all the way through. If this was Iron Man 4 it would be him rescuing The Avengers at the end.

Civil War is a very apt subtitle: these guys knocled 7 shades of shit out of each other. Are we supposed to believe that suddenly everyone's made up super quickly at the end of the film (apart from Stark and Cap)

Black Panther was awesome. 

Spiderman was awesome.

The Vision was nerfed but was pretty great.

Hawkeye sucks.

Black Widow: traitor!

Fly-guy irrated me.

Scarlette Witch: in a film about the problems of controlling power, her being a human embodiment of that problem, she got over her insecurities pretty damn quickly.

Still, a very well put together film with incredible action. I echo the sentiments about the slowness of the beginning and the end.

Oh yeah, and:

Martin Freeman was in the film. Why, I'm not sure, but he definitely was.

Edited by Pan-dub
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