Civil War *SPOILERS!*


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I thought it was a rushed piece of garbage. They were building up to a great climax, and pulled the plug right when it was getting good. Everything up to the people stopping Cap was great. After that it was Stupid. After all Cap went through. After all the damage he had already caused during the whole civil War. He picked right then to decide he was wrong?

Until then he hadn't seen it from the the human vantage point, so to speak. It took normal men and women, the people Cap fights for, to show him the wanton damage superheroes cause. It wasn't just one building that fight ruined; over 100 superheroes (and some villains) laid waste to several blocks in the middle of New York City. How is that helping people? Cap finally realized superheroes need to be held accountable for their actions, because of Stamford, because of that fight, because of any damage they've ever carelessly caused. And that fight was careless.

Does he really think they will think of him as Steve Rodgers and not Captain America just because he took his mask off?

No. But there's a difference to him. Captain America isn't a man, it's an ideal. And that ideal can't be behind bars.

Why is Cap......er Steve in jail, and all the other heroes pardoned? That just doesn't make sense.

My guess: they offered him a pardon and he refused. Steve has convictions, hence the civil war, and he most likely feels he needs to be punished for his action.

They spent the whole run showing the anti side in a more favorable light, and now it feels like the wrong side won.

Someone had to lose, and the more favorable side can't always win.

Best thing to come out of the end of civil war? In Amazing Spider-man they finally killed of Aunt May. Finally. At last. I'm so freakin' happy that she's done, after all those false deaths and whatnot her continuity was insane.

She's been shot, that's all. We've yet to see her die.

However the problems with having the Kingpin kill her are obvious, especially with Norman Osbourne out there and government sanctioned. Why the hell is Spidey not focused on Osbourne and the fact that Stark is fine with Norman being free and clear? I honestly think that with regards to this whole arc I could have skipped the main book and just read the peripheral titles and not even noticed it was gone.

Most people forget that Fisk started out as a Spider-Man villain. I wonder if this is Marvel's way of moving him away from Daredevil, and back into Spider-Man's rogues' gallery.

What upsets me is how this messes with Brubaker's Daredevil / Kingpin story. Maybe those issues of DD take place after Civil War, and they very well could, but if they run concurrent with it... well, just read Daredevil to see what I mean.

On top of this there still arn't any pro or anti registration results. Some sort of amnesty for all the non-registered guys and apparently all the registered ones are screwed because they didn't read the small print and have joined the army?!

Only 12 people were given amnesty. I believe that was mentioned in CW#6.

So registration was a failiure because tons of guys can still run around unlicenced. Isn't there some kind of middle ground with this or is it just extremes? This solved squat.

"Tons of guys" can't just run around. By superheroing without government approval they're breaking the law and SHIELD will come after them.

Captain Marvel's return? Meaningless. Utterly meaningless. Half the guys out there fighting were at his bedside when he died all those years ago and the man gets to be in ONE FREAKIN' PANEL! Not even a "hey didn't you kop it a while back?"

True.

I'm not saying that the fallout won't be good, but this issue solved nothing. Its just blatant cash-mongering by Marvel to try and get me to buy the 18 titles that will explain everything that happened and its just not going to happen. I'm going to continue with Amazing Spidey and Thunderbolts but the rest of it can sit on the shelf.

Every event is that way. How many tie-in, Aftermath and One Year Later issues were hitched to the IC cart?

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At least the Infinite Crisis contained the payoff. I don't regard Caps arrest as a good enough payoff considering all that went into this, its certainly no kind of resolution. Plus One Year Later was a universal reboot, and you could pick and choose the titles you wanted to follow from then on. Civil War still has big questions about the whole deal and there is no way to know what book to read to understand it all.

I was aware that Fisk was orignially a Spider-man villian, but he is undisputedly a Daredevil villian now and this turn of events would just seem to stifle the white-hot Fisk/DD pairing they have right now. The Kingpin has been a DD guy ever since Frank Millar brought him in and he's remained a Daredevil guy for a long time since. Its just daft that Peters now going to go after Fisk when Norman Freakin Osbourne is running a super-team for the government. I've no objection to a Fisk/Spidey confrontation, but this is hardly the time. This WOULD be the time to make the Mysterio comeback mean something, expecially with a big question mark surrounding Quentin Beck's ressurection. That story would have sensible implications for either DD OR Spidey.

I might be going out on a limb here but given all the Back in Black stuff I'm pretty certain May has popped her clogs. Thats a great thing not because I hate the old bird but because Spider-man needs to grow up a bit and as long as this ancient lady is still hanging around Peters going to eternally be a 20-something smartass. He hasn't progressed much as a character in a long time but the combination of Mays death and his public outing could bring the sort of development that has made Daredevil a must read title for the last few years.

I must have missed the whole Amnesty explaination bit (or more likely not absorbed it all that well and forgot it in the months ince the last issue).

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At least the Infinite Crisis contained the payoff. I don't regard Caps arrest as a good enough payoff considering all that went into this, its certainly no kind of resolution.

The payoff in Infinite Crisis was the creation of New Earth with new and updated origins. A new status quo was set. Same thing with Civil War: the SRA is firmly in place, Steve Rogers is in jail, Tony Stark is in charge of SHIELD, the Avengers are split, the Fantastic Four have splintered, Spider-Man is out and so on. Like IC, the 616 has a new status quo and provides a great jumping on point for new readers. Longtime readers know the history, but new readers need not be bogged down in it.

Frankly, neither event answered every question. That's the hook to keep readers reading.

Plus One Year Later was a universal reboot, and you could pick and choose the titles you wanted to follow from then on. Civil War still has big questions about the whole deal and there is no way to know what book to read to understand it all.

I'm glad Marvel isn't telling us where to go next. Why? The event is over. We've had a taste of just about every superhero in the 616. If I like what I saw of Luke Cage, I'll grab New Avengers. If Tony Stark grabbed my interest, Mighty Avengers and Iron Man is where I'll go. Maybe I'm wondering what's in store for Steve Rogers, so I'll read Captain America. Why was The Punisher holding Cap's mask? Well, only one way to find out: read Punisher War Journal.

See, instead of forcing us to read a million books, we can look where we want for the answers we seek. Let's say I couldn't care less about The Punisher and the mask. Then I won't grab his book. No need to waste my time. Marvel is allowing readers to pick and choose where they go next. That's the same thing DC did post-IC.

I was aware that Fisk was orignially a Spider-man villian, but he is undisputedly a Daredevil villian now and this turn of events would just seem to stifle the white-hot Fisk/DD pairing they have right now. The Kingpin has been a DD guy ever since Frank Millar brought him in and he's remained a Daredevil guy for a long time since. Its just daft that Peters now going to go after Fisk when Norman Freakin Osbourne is running a super-team for the government. I've no objection to a Fisk/Spidey confrontation, but this is hardly the time. This WOULD be the time to make the Mysterio comeback mean something, expecially with a big question mark surrounding Quentin Beck's ressurection. That story would have sensible implications for either DD OR Spidey.

Who's to say Spidey won't go after Osborn down the line? You watch wrestling. You know how feuds work. Wrestler A is pissed at Wrestler B, so they fight for three months. Their feud ends, but there's still animosity. In the meantime, A starts a feud with Wrestler C, and Wrestler B gets into it with D. Those feuds are wrapped up in another three or four months, but then something sparks the feud between A and B again.

Same thing with comic books. Spider-Man and the Green Goblin can't always kick the crap out of one another. It would get boring if they did. So anticipation has to be built. With Peter being on the wrong side of the law and Osborn being on the right side, well, that's something new and different and I can't wait to see what happens between them in a year or so. Give it time to brew. Let Norman settle into his new role. Let Peter deal with is life post-CW. It'll happen. Just wait.

As for Fisk, even though I don't like how this seemingly works against Brubaker's story, at least Spider-Man has a new villain akin to Osborn. Besides Norman, the bulk of Spider-Man's villains are powered thugs. Few have the ability to outwit and manipulate Peter. Fisk does. He's an expert at it. Let's see where it goes.

I might be going out on a limb here but given all the Back in Black stuff I'm pretty certain May has popped her clogs. Thats a great thing not because I hate the old bird but because Spider-man needs to grow up a bit and as long as this ancient lady is still hanging around Peters going to eternally be a 20-something smartass. He hasn't progressed much as a character in a long time but the combination of Mays death and his public outing could bring the sort of development that has made Daredevil a must read title for the last few years.

I'm with you. All I'm saying is that she hasn't been buried yet.

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Weakish ending to the main battle I thought, though the resulting pages opened up a huge number of potential books and series' for them which is what they were after.

The Punisher bit where he picked up Caps mask was intersting as well, are they going to have him break Cap out or have him don the mask and pretend he is Cap to gain some sense of credibility after what happened to him in Civil War or what Cap did to him in his CW tie in.

Thunderbolts are already a highlight for me as the concept is one which can only be dived into futher by the writers, both from the sense of lots of heroes that are hated by them to also political issues due to the guys involved.

Also if Cap does stay in jail for awhile I could see Stark having to come to him for help against Hulk

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After all the damage he had already caused during the whole civil War. He picked right then to decide he was wrong?

Not that the argument was wrong, but that the way he was going about it was wrong. Looking back at one of the earlier issues, Cap asks a question regarding some of the things the Registration side has done: "Are you going to let them get away with that?" At that point, it seemed more like gang-bangers doing endless drive-by shootings retaliating against each other than a crusade for individual liberty. My interpretation was that he was conflicted the whole time and being attacked by average citizens was the breaking point.

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After all the damage he had already caused during the whole civil War. He picked right then to decide he was wrong?

Not that the argument was wrong, but that the way he was going about it was wrong. Looking back at one of the earlier issues, Cap asks a question regarding some of the things the Registration side has done: "Are you going to let them get away with that?" At that point, it seemed more like gang-bangers doing endless drive-by shootings retaliating against each other than a crusade for individual liberty. My interpretation was that he was conflicted the whole time and being attacked by average citizens was the breaking point.

I didn't see him as conflicted. I saw him as having made the choice to "fight dirty" as he put it. He knew they were destroying property and knew people could get hurt, and had come to terms with that. That's always been a problem even when fighting criminals. I just don't see why a couple guys stopping him from killing Tony(which he wasn't going to do if you look at his face) changed his mind about something he knew in his heart was right for however long since the law was passed.

He never doubted his decision, and that's why it was a lame thing to have him do it so fast like that. He also made everyone else stop fighting against it because he didn't believe it anymore. Even if they still thought the SRA was wrong, he made the decision for them. It just didn't feel like something Cap would do.

I loved the fight though. I said early in this thread that Herc should have took out the Thor robot, and he did. Sue lashing out was awesome also. That fight had me on the edge of my seat, and they just stopped it when it got good with no real ending.

The stuff after Cap turned himself in just made it look like the Civil War never happened and everything was candy and rainbows. It just seemed tacked on to fill pages.

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I finally read the last issue. Um, Captain America gave up and started to cry... wtf! I was really happy I didn't buy the tie-ins for this event. Things have definitely changed though. Cap is in jail. Tony is now head of S.h.i.e.l.d. There is still an underground resistance and every state has a super team (which is pretty interesting). Whether they needed 82 books to tell that is another story, but there was change.

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My biggest problem with the ending is not that Cap dropped it real quick but that his entire team immediately stopped when he said too. I would rather see Cap simply start fighting and watch his side fall apart without his leadership. Then the antis could have reasonably crumbled into whatever little factions they are going to be in.

All in all I really enjoy the series. It wasn't the most well written story or the most well executed story but it does create a most exciting status quo and I don't believe civil war can truly be analyzed without that context.

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My biggest problem with the ending is not that Cap dropped it real quick but that his entire team immediately stopped when he said too.

Let me put it this way: In an issue of Daredevil, I believe it's 233, Daredevil notes that Captain America "has a voice that could command a god... and does." When Thor and Hercules, the sons of Odin and Zeus (respectively), take orders from Captain America, a mortal, you can be damn sure guys like Spider-Man will listen.

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My biggest problem with the ending is not that Cap dropped it real quick but that his entire team immediately stopped when he said too.

Let me put it this way: In an issue of Daredevil, I believe it's 233, Daredevil notes that Captain America "has a voice that could command a god... and does." When Thor and Hercules, the sons of Odin and Zeus (respectively), take orders from Captain America, a mortal, you can be damn sure guys like Spider-Man will listen.

I don't disagree with the authority but I feel that it destroys any credibility that the other heroes had for the cause. Were they fighting for what they believed? If they stopped fighting, no they weren't. The all become sheep, blindly following. For someone like Hercules, who on some levels requires the moral compass and humanity that a Cap can provide, it makes sense to stand down. For someone like Spider-Man, Luke Cage, etc. standing down because Cap says so tells me they are fighting for Caps belief more than their own. They are turned into shallow zealots with no stance left to defend their terrorist actions (since from a citizens stand-point, many of these acts would very much be terrorist acts).

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