Episode 22


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James and Mike continue the discussion of Superman: The Animated Series by examining five more episodes: "Fun and Games," "A Little Piece of Home," "Feeding Time," "The Way of All Flesh" and "Stolen Memories." All that, plus a slew of listener feedback! [ 1:53:34 || 51.9 MB ]

The above is from: http://www.worldsfinestpodcast.com/episodes/wfp_022.mp3

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James and Mike continue the discussion of Superman: The Animated Series by examining five more episodes: "Fun and Games," "A Little Piece of Home," "Feeding Time," "The Way of All Flesh" and "Stolen Memories." All that, plus a slew of listener feedback! [ 1:53:34 || 51.9 MB ]

The above is from: http://www.worldsfinestpodcast.com/episodes/wfp_022.mp3

That was a great show, I needed it, Im siiiiiiiiiiiiiick

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I have to say that, and this is purely my opinion, Episode 22 has to be one of our top 3 episodes yet in terms of overall quality; and dare I say it, it may be our best one yet. I think my voice sounded better than it ever has (don't ask me why, I have no idea) and we had more laugh moments in this installment than any other. :happy:

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Yet, looking at my notes, there were so many things I forgot to mention. :shakehead:

Same here. I had at least two during "Feeding Time" that I failed to mention. One was, how was Parasite able to absorb Kryptonite when he couldn't absorb any other inanimate/inorganic object? Yes, I'm aware that upon absorbing Superman's powers, he got Supes' weaknesses, too. I'm just wondering how he absorbed that by touching it.

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Pre-Episode Banter

Whoa, that Best Buy thing is pretty bad. That girl really needs to teach Best Buy a lesson for that one.

Oh yeah, I know all about Pit and Brawl. Personally, I think that Meta Knight is the most unbalanced based on what I've seen. But this is really my most anticipated game ever. I don't think I'll need to buy another game for a good while after this one.

Yeah, Anne Heche was not a good choice.

E-Mails

I really like that 'Wild Cards' explanation.

Totally agreed with him about those three really good S:TAS episodes, even though, as good as 'Mr. Kent' is, nothing in the entire DCAU beats the end of 'Apokalips...Now!'.

I actually agree with the Avatar guy (except for the stuff about it being a Lazarus pit), but I already more civilly argued with you about the whole homage deal and you guys are definitely justified in your belief that B:TAS shouldn't be so flexible as to encompass really cheesy homages or things like that.

But yeah, he is pretty vicious, even though, it is sort of refreshing to hear some negativity. You guys can't have a perfect track record forever.

Ah, 'Memoria' is probably the best Smallville episode ever made. But yeah, Smallville's Lana is AWFUL.

That is the most perfect way to review TNBA. It will feel so awesome to have WFP's with both Batman and Superman.

Episodes

Fun and Games- YES. I just love this episode. Creepy, beautifully animated, and one of the most psychologically involved episodes of the series. Great stuff. Yeah, exactly, he's just like a Bat-villain.

Aww, come on. Don't count the supplies he has for making toys against it. It's a Superman cartoon! You have to take that all in stride.

I think that Superman is able to put restraints on his strength. Great reference to 'Destroyer' there. And as to whether he's thinking straight, I think it's because it's his first real adventure outside of the origin episode and so he's going to screw up a little bit.

I LOVE the pop-up book. He still wants to be understood, so he probably made that just in case while, you know, assembling his giant toy factory. And still, it's a Superman cartoon, you really can't count it that harshly.

I'm really glad that you guys like this one though, because I really really adore it.

A Little Piece of Home- Also great stuff. Love the origin of kryptonite, love the animation, love the jazzy music, love the settings, and love seeing more Luthor.

Bah, I like the dinosaur. I think that Luthor had it replaced with a robot at the last minute (given he replaced the meteor rocks as well), because he knew they'd be there.

And yep, Luthor is amazing. Love that you're giving the Clancy Brown version the respect it deserves.

Dead-on about the jazz music, James. Reminds me of 'Cowboy Bebop'.

No, the argument is not over. It said that S:TAS established a NEW DC animated universe from B:TAS, which means that the pop-up is clearly wrong, given that B:TAS is indeed part of the same universe, if by universe it means continuity, which you clearly believe it to. Therefore, it's saying that 'Teen Titans' is part of the universe can't be regarded as valid either if it actually claims that the DC animated universe started with S:TAS. It's just so impossible to justify the technological advances and supernatural craziness that is clearly present in 'Teen Titans' when in B:TAS, they are apparently just now discovering how to alter DNA ('On Leather Wings') and how to program basic robots, which are proven to be imperfect anyway ('Heart of Steel' and 'His Silicon Soul'), while all this stuff happens on such enormous scales in 'Teen Titans'. And come on, can you seriously imagine any of the things that happen in 'Teen Titans', all the zanines and nonsensical logic coexisting with the very very realistic B:TAS? It's impossible I tells ya!

Feeding Time- Bleh, the only episode in the batch I don’t like because it’s just so average. There is nothing interesting at all, it’s just Superman vs the villain of the week. And the animation is not so good.

Whoa, Mike and James having a soft spot for one of my least favorite S:TAS episodes. Whoooaaaaah.

I agree with every one of your gripes though.

Ha, I love your little thing about Rudy undressing Clark. It just got funnier as it went on.

And about the animation, yeah it wasn’t bad or anything, but when you compare it to the first two episodes done by TMS, it looks so bland in comparison. The fight between Superman and Parasite especially looks really clunky.

The Way of All Flesh- Awesome episode. More psychological villain treatment, AMAZING animation and fight scenes. More Luthor cunning, and just all around incredible.

Hooray for James liking this episode.

Agreed with Mike about the level of maturity in the series. Because B:TAS is so dark and such a ground-breaking series, people will say that it’s automatically more mature than S:TAS, because it’s Superman and Superman is happy and all that BS. But come on, if B:TAS ever tried anything like the ending of ‘Apokalips…Now!’, they just wouldn’t have been able to pull it off.

James, was that the first time one of you have said Supes so far?

Didn’t notice that background dialogue. Hilarious!

And yeah, great ending.

Stolen Memories- Yet another good one. I’m sort of disappointed that the episode didn’t get TMS treatment, and it is one of Koko’s weaker episodes animation-wise, but other than that, the episode is more great stuff. Love the continuity and love how it really builds up the scope of the series.

Yeah, originally I agreed about the dream, but after a while I did figure out what Superman was saying. I think he says it to Luthor, when he goes back to the base to warn Luthor about Brainiac’s danger.

I think that Luthor was the lesser of new evils, especially given that this was an alien with infinite capabilities. Yeah, I can see Superman talking to Luthor.

Yeah, agreed about the animation with James. I think in the commentary they mention that they had to do a lot of re-takes. My problems are in the fight scene with the robots (which is super clunky), and Luthor looked really off-model a lot of the time. Yeah, there were probably some Fleischer references in there.

I still that this is early Luthor, and given that he still has a long way to go until ‘Justice League’, I can buy that he would mess up here, especially given he had some backup.

But come on, at least we got that awesome ‘you have two weeks’ line.

Oh yeah! Forgot about the Fortress. Boy, just about every episode really shows progression, which I absolutely LOVE.

I think that the robot thing isn’t so noticeable, given that they’re all really different. And I’m pretty sure they’re going to start disappearing.

Scores

Fun and Games: You- 7 / Me: 9

A Little Piece of Home: You- 6 and 7 / Me- 8.5

Feeding Time: You- 7 / Me- 5

The Way of All Flesh: You- 8.5 and 7 / Me- 9

Stolen Memories: You- 7 / Me- 7.5

Great job again. And more solid episodes to come next time too.

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I agree with James, this was one of the best. Throw in a crappy episodes that's enjoyable to tear apart and it would have been perfect.

"Put down the crack pipe"...you're killin' me Mike.

I guess Koete, that Mike is the one of those people that don't like the fact Lois is in the show.

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I actually agree with the Avatar guy (except for the stuff about it being a Lazarus pit), but I already more civilly argued with you about the whole homage deal and you guys are definitely justified in your belief that B:TAS shouldn't be so flexible as to encompass really cheesy homages or things like that.

But yeah, he is pretty vicious, even though, it is sort of refreshing to hear some negativity. You guys can't have a perfect track record forever.

to be fair, i sent in the first WFP listener feedback ever, and it was extremly negative.

Aww, come on. Don't count the supplies he has for making toys against it. It's a Superman cartoon! You have to take that all in stride.

100% agree.

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There has to be SOME level of logic. We ripped BTAS on countless occasions for senselessness and stuff that was inherently impossible (like the entirety of "Christmas with the Joker"). I feel that Toyman having a gargantuan bulletproof duck is just silly on an impossible level (even though I dug the Batman Returns homage). And besides, I still graded the episode a 7. I think I gave it plenty of slack.

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There has to be SOME level of logic. We ripped BTAS on countless occasions for senselessness and stuff that was inherently impossible (like the entirety of "Christmas with the Joker"). I feel that Toyman having a gargantuan bulletproof duck is just silly on an impossible level (even though I dug the Batman Returns homage).

i don't see why that stuff is important though. If these logics problems deter you from enjoying an episode of a "cartoon" based on a "superhero comic book" then why not just ignore the "logic problems" and enjoy the episode. I would really hate to see you guys review any golden age/silver age comics lol.

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Yeah, I mean, I agree with some level of logic, as in character consistencies and not relying on plot devices and all that, but honestly: Bruce Timm was working on this show with strict deadlines with the full knowledge that it was a Superman cartoon intended mostly for children; there is no way he had the time to account for things like the villains' income and all that. I mean, I don't recall 'Heart of Ice' getting flack because it was never revealed how Mr. Freeze assembled his crew or his array of freezing weapons.

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HA! I like that idea. Sadly, I throw all of my notes away.

Its called Dumster Diving

Though the "Avatar" e-mail did seem a little know-it-all-ish, I respect the author's opinion just as much as I respect those of the people who chime in with happier feedback.

Yoda, that guy was a total smart ass

I have to say that, and this is purely my opinion, Episode 22 has to be one of our top 3 episodes yet in terms of overall quality; and dare I say it, it may be our best one yet. I think my voice sounded better than it ever has (don't ask me why, I have no idea) and we had more laugh moments in this installment than any other. :happy:

I agree! And yes I love those "Laugh Moments", But my family looks at me strage like when I just burst out laughing

There has to be SOME level of logic. We ripped BTAS on countless occasions for senselessness and stuff that was inherently impossible (like the entirety of "Christmas with the Joker"). I feel that Toyman having a gargantuan bulletproof duck is just silly on an impossible level (even though I dug the Batman Returns homage). And besides, I still graded the episode a 7. I think I gave it plenty of slack.

Atchully the Duck may have been another refrence to BTAS, Rember "The Mechanic", The Penguin got rid of the nerdy guy by leading onto a Giant Rubbery Ducky and sending him down through the sewer's

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Hey guys, wow, for once I'm not the first to comment, lol. The truth is, my internet, phone and cable was all turned off and I had to wait until today to get it all turned back on, so WFP, didn't download with no internet connection. Anyway, I'm back and here to do what I do best, critique, the already critiqued.

Mail:

The explanation on The Joker's appearance, makes great sense. The flashback in Return of the Joker had to take place after everything, because what happened there caused a riff between Batman and Batgirl, to the point where he was alone again.

LOL, I HATE LANA LANG IN SMALLVILLE...YES FOUND MORE. OMG, she is so annoying the first first and maybe second season, she was decent, but as she seemed to get more screentime, she got worse. WHAT! Erica Durance, eww. Well she is better than Kate Bowsworth as Lois, but not by much. I really hope she does die and we find out that Chloe is in fact the Lois Lane of the Superman era, because I feel Chloe and Clark really should get together, another reason I hate Kristen Kreuk, Alisson Mack is so much hotter than Kristen, I feel like slapping Tom Welling for not choosing her.

Fun and Games; the first episode after the pilot movie, features some great animation and the continued great voice acting. Bud Cort, fills the role of Toyman to a capital T, very eery character. I am still at a crossroads of what is creepier this Toyman or the Tim Burton-look-a-like Toyman in Superman: Doomsday , but if I had to make a choice right now, this would be the Toyman of choice. I wonder if Bruce Timm really thought about the kids who will be watching this, grant it, while I was growing up, not much scared me, but I see this as nightmare material for anyone younger than 8 years of age. Bruce Weitz definately has the sound of a cliched Gangster type, it's great how in this series, you start out as a mediocre character, but you eventually go on to be a great part of the series, Bruno Manheim is a great example. Can't wait to get deeper in the series with this character. The giant duck was a homage to Batman Returns Bruce Timm and Paul Dini have been known to do homages to the Tm Burton films. 6 out of 10.

A Little Piece Of Home; okay this episode features the debut of Kryptonite. Up until this point, Superman figures himself pretty much invulnerable, so when he runs into this weakness its definately a new feeling for him. However, I wasn't too convinced at Lex Luthor's carelessness. Luthor is a very smart man and normally he would have calculated more on Superman to really spring the surprise on him with the Kryptonite, not to mention, he uses the whole chunk in one shot, which is even dumber. Definately not the best Luthor episode. However, it does put Superman in his place, for a oment in the beginning we do see how cocky Superman has become, because of his invulnerability. The animation is still bright, not gritty like the Batman world. Is the dinosaur seen in the Luthor museum supposed to be the same one that is seen in the Batcave? I do agree that Clancy Brown is on my top choices as Lex Luthor, with Gene Hackman, Kevin Spacey, Michael Rosembaum and John Shea behind him. Lol and yes, the discussion is over "Teen Titans" is DCAU. I would have to give this 5 out of 10.

Feeding Time; introduces us to Parasite, he's the type of character in this series that you are confused about at times. You don't know whether to like him or hate him. In the beginning, he's this sympathetic dutz(like Sid "The Squid" from B: TAS), than when he discovers his power and how it effects Superman, he goes into the realm of non-sympathy. Parasites transformation stays in the vein of Adolescent Cartoon animation, it's creepy and very NOT kid friendly to watch. Whenever I watch this episode, I always have a good time watching it, it's a great time passer. I am glad they didn't make this a two-parter. Brion James does the voice of Parasite and is decent. Parasite finding out Superman's identity is a sudden shocker, but you have to remember that when he loses his charge, he forgets the info he got from the drain. 5 out of 10

The Way of All Flesh; WOW, great episode. Every Metallo episode, good or bad is made better by Malcolm McDowell's voice acting. This definately could have been made into a two-parter. It shows the ruthlessness of Lex Luthor and you feel for Metallo, at least for a minute. Malcolm McDowell has cemented himself in my opinion as the BEST person to have portrayed Metallo, live action or animation(Michael Callan played Roger Corban's Metallo in Superboy, Scott Valentine played John Corbin's Metallo in Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman ) This episode was another to set up the future for this show. 8 out of 10.

Stolen Memories; great episode, nothing more to really say, but of course I will. Corey Burton returns in a role made so popular it transferred over into "The Batman, " Brainiac. Here we get what will become a continuing storyline in the DCAU. I can't wait until we get to his team-ups/betrayels of Bruce Wayne, Darkseid and Lex Luthor. The animation is stellar, the voice acting is good, overall great episode. The one thing I have a gripe with is that Superman seems to allow all those worlds of knowledge aboard Bainiacs ship to go up in flames, just to save himself and his world's knowledge. Doesn't seem to be very Superman like. 8 out of 10.

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