The Doctor Who thread

[Dan]

Hmm. Maybe I need to watch this one again, but I wasn't blown away.

Re: John Hurt... I think that the speculation as to his costume (similar to McGann's new Big Finish outfit) led to me just assuming that he was an incarnation of the Doctor we hadn't seen, possibly Eight at the end of his life. Which would also indicate that the terrible thing that he did that he couldn't do as the Doctor was pushing the big red button that made the Time Lords go kerflooey.

So the big OMG REVEAL didn't hit me as hard as it has other people.

[Koete]

All right, I'll be that guy.

I thought all the stuff with Clara was bullshit. I don't buy her, for as far as she knew, sacrificing herself based on how little time we've spent with her character and how strained her relationship with The Doctor was. On top of that, weaving her throughout The Doctor's history, to the point where she tells him which TARDIS to steal, was ridiculous. That's the kind of sacrifice you give Amy and Rory, not someone we just met.

And John Hurt must have done something unquestionably evil, considering the shady things The Doctor has done.

[Venneh]

That or they just confirm the theories and make the Master an incarnation of the Doctor by way of John Hurt.

Haven't watched it yet, will do so tomorrow.

[Koete]

That or they just confirm the theories and make the Master an incarnation of the Doctor by way of John Hurt.

Whoever came up with that was reaching so far, their hand went to another country.

[Rjoyadet]

"If I had to visit my grave I would spend the rest of my days very depressed. I would probably obsess over the time and place where I die, visiting it religiously. I wonder if the doctor peeked into his future so that is why he seems to know what The Doctor has /will do as well as why he did it.

Or maybe 11 saw him when he was looking in the room from "The God Complex"

[Davedevil]

Going with the theory that he's lost his name, maybe he's a version of 8 who gave up after killing all the Time Lords.

[dc20willsave]

Series 8 has officially been commissioned for 2014, Stephen Moffat is returning.

[dc20willsave]

Thoughts on the episode:

The 8th Doctor (Paul McGann) fought in the Time War. Eventually, he acquires The Moment, the thing that will eventually end the Time War, wiping out The Daleks and The Time Lords. However, The Doctor realizes that doing so is wrong and is genocide and can't do it. So, he regenerates into something that can, wether by his own hand or a Dalek or The Nightmare Child or whatever, becoming What should have been The Ninth Doctor except he knows now that he can do it. He regenerated into something that can ignore the right thing and do the smart thing. So, he presses the button and becomes The Beast or The Storm (John Hurt). Then, an undetermined time later, he regenerates into a man who looks at what he did and despises himself for that and reclaims the name of The Doctor (Christopher Eccleston.) Since this other man technically wasn't The Doctor, he wasn't lieing calling himself The Ninth, Tenth, and Eleventh Doctor. However, this also means that if and when The Doctor regerates, it's going to be into incarnation 13 meaning he's done at the point. But, even more dire and it's something that can't be swept under the rug because Moffat just reminded us that he exists in continuity, The Valeyard is going to get set loose.

[Venneh]

All right. As others have said, way more satisfying than Moffat's other finales. However, I have a challenge for folks.

Name me one reason that Clara would choose to make that sacrifice, other than the plot/existing story required her to, given her relationship with the Doctor and who she is as a person.

Also, this basically makes her the biggest Mary Sue in the history of fucking ever, and vaguely implies that every Companion at one point or another was possessed by her. Yeah, fuck no. Give the Ponds that sacrifice, not some character who we still don't know after only half a season.

Also, the bit with John Hurt is really interesting, also is likely going to throw the 13 regeneration limit out the window.

[KnightWing]

First of all, I don't believe that she literally "possessed" the previous companions. She either lived a full separate life (Oswin, Snowmen-Clara, etc) or she just popped into reality briefly like an echo.

Now, as for why she'd make that choice:

1. Clara has sometimes been shown to be a "jump first, ask questions while falling of the cliff" type of character.

2. There is the time paradox to consider. When she jumped into the Doctor's timeline, she then popped up in random places, often inexplicably helping the Doctor without knowing entirely why. It's not too far of a jump to assume that "Clara Prime" was also affected by this. Because of the paradox, her choice justifies itself.

3. The entire universe was dying. Jenny and Strax disappeared, the stars were winking out of the sky, and the Doctor (who had, of course, saved Clara's life multiple times at this point) was dying at her feet. What did she even have to lose by doing what she did? She's faced down an army of Cybermen, a ghost, and the ultimate Ice Warrior by that point; it's not as though she's lacking for bravery.

This is easily my favorite Doctor Who finale, and probably in my top seven-or-so episodes overall.

Ten minutes in, I was already at the edge of my seat. Jenny getting murdered while asleep, the Doctor breaking down practically in tears at the thought of going to Trenzalore, every step of the journey through the graveyard and the tomb; it was all brilliant. The revelations about the Beast/the Storm/"The Doctor" at the end raised all kinds of epic questions in just the right way. The only thing I'm disappointed in is the fact that we have to wait until November to see what happens next.

[Badhead]

All right. As others have said, way more satisfying than Moffat's other finales. However, I have a challenge for folks.

this basically makes her the biggest Mary Sue in the history of fucking ever,

[Badhead]

All right. As others have said, way more satisfying than Moffat's other finales. However, I have a challenge for folks.

this basically makes her the biggest Mary Sue in the history of fucking ever,

n

no more than River or Rose

[Stavros]

We must be able to get do without spoilers by now right?

Ok, my assessment was wrong. Hurt probably is the doctor that ended the Time War and not a future doctor, since 11 seems to know his deal. So huh,They're going to show Doctor 8.5 but not 8 or 9.

[KnightWing]

To further add to my point about the time paradox affecting Clara Prime: In The Bells of Saint John, she says "run you clever boy and remember" in order to remember an acronym, despite having no stated reason to find that phrase easy to remember. It's only in The Name of the Doctor that Clara Prime is actually given a good reason to say it. So it seems pretty clear that she was affected by the paradox from the very beginning.

[Koete]

So you're saying that she was always a plot device?

[KnightWing]

To a degree, yes. She was always "The Impossible Girl" from her very first appearance, even if the Doctor didn't know it. That doesn't mean she's devoid of character, but that her status as the key to the overall plot influenced her to a degree. I'm interested to see how she develops in future stories, now that she

should be past the whole Impossible Girl thing (and also because she now knows quite a bit about the Doctor, including his name and a lot of his history. Hell, she probably knows him better than any other modern companion at this point).

[Pan-dub]

Did anyone see the bonus footage of Smith and Tennant talking backstage as a 'thank you' for not spoiling the episode after the DVD blunder:

This 'other character'...either John Hurt's going to do a serious 180 attitude wise or there's another big, secret character that's going to make this plot thicken like Pavarotti in winter

[Dan]

The Doctor Who Fan Orchestra is (as the name implies) an organization of several hundred musicians who collaborate on pieces of Murray Gold's music. The most recent, Amy's Suite, is gorgeous and just went up, but this, The Impossible Astronaut Suite, is one I rather like:

[Dan]

Series 8 has officially been commissioned for 2014, Stephen Moffat is returning.

So, other than the anniversary and Christmas (presumably), we have about a year and a half to wait until the next series. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, so long as the special answers more questions than it raises.

It also means that, in terms of calendar time, Smith will become the second-longest continually-serving Doctor (so not counting the wait between Survival and the TVM for McCoy) assuming an entire 13-episode series that stretches into 2015.

[Badhead]

The Doctor Who Fan Orchestra is (as the name implies) an organization of several hundred musicians who collaborate on pieces of Murray Gold's music. The most recent, Amy's Suite, is gorgeous and just went up, but this, The Impossible Astronaut Suite, is one I rather like:

wonder if they will do a keff mcculloch tribute

[slothian]

All right. As others have said, way more satisfying than Moffat's other finales. However, I have a challenge for folks.

Name me one reason that Clara would choose to make that sacrifice, other than the plot/existing story required her to, given her relationship with the Doctor and who she is as a person.

Also, this basically makes her the biggest Mary Sue in the history of fucking ever, and vaguely implies that every Companion at one point or another was possessed by her. Yeah, fuck no. Give the Ponds that sacrifice, not some character who we still don't know after only half a season.

Also, the bit with John Hurt is really interesting, also is likely going to throw the 13 regeneration limit out the window.

1) If I'm reading my TV tropes right, "Mary Sue" implies that Clara is Moffatt, which I can't get my head around.

2) When watching the episode, I took the Clara monologue - which was repeated twice, and helped reinforce my view - to mean that whilst she was present for every Doctor dilemma, only Eleven turned to speak to her and thus engage. Therefore, she was always a separate entity to the actual companion. That she was dressed as other companions struck me as fan service and nothing more. Her presence can be explained as strictly undoing the damage of the Great Intelligence.

For my part, I found the episode to be very engaging. It could possibly have been stretched into a two-parter, but I don't think the episode really suffered from being a one & done. With regard to the Clara storyline, I can see why people would think her sacrifice, such that it is in that she didn't die, would be a bit sudden, but then this storyline had been set in place from the beginning of this series, and if it hadn't been addressed in this episode, people would still have bitched & moaned about Moffatt dragging it out. At worst, we don't see the many iterations of Eleven meeting various versions of Clara, and tbh, I could see that getting very old, very quickly - especially as people didn't like Eleven moving onto the 3rd iteration of Clara after the Christmas special.

My interpretation of this episode is that it wraps up the Impossible Girl storyline, gives River a proper goodbye so that she can be properly written out and, within the space where mutliple Doctor history can fall in on itself, sets up the 50th anniversary with John Hurt's Doctor/Valeyard, Tennant's Ten and possibly others. There was also Vastra/Jenny/Strax, so I'm scratching my head as to what the major, hateful flaws are that damn Moffatt as some kind of hack.

[Stavros]

Does it mean goodbye for River though? She did mention spoilers.

[JackFetch]

I hope so. I never liked her.

[KnightWing]

Hey Ian. We agree on something.

[Frankymole]

Quick thoughts on The Next Name of the Doctor:

The colourisation wasn't up to Babelcolour standards, and goodness knows how flaky the archive clip cut-outs looked in HD, (maybe doing them in sepia or other-colour tinted flashback may have helped them blend shots? Too late now) but the episode was good fun.

Not sure how we got to see Hartnell already old and in his Edwardian costume leaving Gallifrey (with Susan?), though maybe he'd recently got back from being stranded on Earth in his Christopher Barry to George Gallacio incarnations.

Well above average, but no masterpiece (very good/7)