dc20willsave Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 As a fan of the Disney canon, I'd probably say that the Renaissance went from The Little Mermaid to Mulan, maybe Tarzan but Tarzan is probably my least favorite of all of the Disney animated films and it also starts to depart from the formula. Just because Pocahontas made less doesn't make it the end of the Renaissance. It's still at the point where the animated films were making a large amount of money, both domestically and foreign for Disney and the movies have at least some quality to them in both animation and storyline. They also followed the formula set out by The Little Mermaid. The formula isn't exact but here's my best approximation. Do note that not all of the elements have to occur for this to work. In fact, none of them contain all of the elements. Most will depart from one or the other. We have a protagonist, always a little different from the people around him/her. Early on, they will have what is called the "I Want" song, a song that defines their motive. We also get introduced to the love interest about here as well as the villain. The love interest will often have something that sets them apart from the protagonist that ensures that they will not immediately connect to each other. The love interest might get a song but this is by no means a certainty. The villain however probably will get their own "I Want" song that will be slightly awesome and leave us no doubt of the villain's motivations. Also, at some point the protagonist will acquire a sidekick, never human, humanoid at best. They will be responsible for most of the comic relief but have a huge part in undoing the villain's big plan. The villain will appear to succeed in their plan at some point, forcing the protagonist into a reckoning. We will end with a confrontation that takes place in inclement weather between the villain and often the male member of the couple though occasionally the female will participate or even be the the one who fights for the side of good. The villain will usually die, often by falling at some point as well as being done in by their own hubris. The protagonist and the love interest kiss and walk off into happily ever after/direct to video sequel land. That all said, I will admit that it is a downward slope from The Lion King on, but then again, the Renaissance didn't end over night. The Lion King is probably the height in turns of money made and, in the eyes of many, the height of it's creativity (I personally believe that to be Beauty and the Beast but that's just me.). The decline is gradual just as the first signs of the emergence of the Disney Dark Age is The Great Mouse Detective with Oliver & Company setting up the proto-formula. Another factor that needs to be put in is Toy Story. Toy Story changed the game and is also a major factor of the decline of the Disney Renaissance but that's a rant for another time. Wow, typing that just made me realize how gay I am. Also how often I ramble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightWing Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 The formula isn't exact but here's my best approximation. Do note that not all of the elements have to occur for this to work. In fact, none of them contain all of the elements. Most will depart from one or the other. We have a protagonist, always a little different from the people around him/her. Early on, they will have what is called the "I Want" song, a song that defines their motive. We also get introduced to the love interest about here as well as the villain. The love interest will often have something that sets them apart from the protagonist that ensures that they will not immediately connect to each other. The love interest might get a song but this is by no means a certainty. The villain however probably will get their own "I Want" song that will be slightly awesome and leave us no doubt of the villain's motivations. Also, at some point the protagonist will acquire a sidekick, never human, humanoid at best. They will be responsible for most of the comic relief but have a huge part in undoing the villain's big plan. The villain will appear to succeed in their plan at some point, forcing the protagonist into a reckoning. We will end with a confrontation that takes place in inclement weather between the villain and often the male member of the couple though occasionally the female will participate or even be the the one who fights for the side of good. The villain will usually die, often by falling at some point as well as being done in by their own hubris. The protagonist and the love interest kiss and walk off into happily ever after/direct to video sequel land. Wow. That's quite an analysis. You may be onto something, though. Tarzan had most of the elements you mentioned, actually. I'd say that it signaled the end of the Renaissance. Toy Story wasn't part of the Renaissance because it wasn't actually made by Disney. Disney owned the characters and story, but Pixar actually made the film. It's odd... I'm looking all over the 'net, and every source I can find seems to claim that the Renaissance lasted from 1989-1999 (TLM-Tarzan), but I can't find out where that classification originally came from. The general consensus is that the films peaked either at Beauty and the Beast or The Lion King, and ended with Tarzan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc20willsave Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Wow, I just realized I forgot to mention one of the most important parts of the formula: The Breakaway Pop Hit. While most of the songs will be traditional book numbers, there will also be one song that transcends this and will also have a cover by a pop singer that will be all over the radio. It will be nominated for an Oscar and win for most of the first half of the Renaissance. The second half, not as much. This song will half the time be the "I Want" song, the love interest's solo song, or the Proclamation of Love song and can be enjoyed outside the context of the movie. Toy Story is definitely its own separate thing. I was just saying that it changed the rules. I love what Pixar has done but I also privately hold a grudge against them at the same time. It's all rather complicated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Robinson Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 I can't believe there's all this talk about Disney in the late 80's/early 90's and not once has somebody mentioned the coolest Disney movie of them all: Who Framed Roger Rabbit? Jeez I need this movie on DVD soon, because my VHS copy has been put through the ringer, but it also makes it feel old school. I keep forgetting that it was made by Disney. I mean, it's so wildly different to what I'd normally expect from a Disney film, and they somehow managed to get appearances from characters who were owned by other companies. My jaw hit the floor when I first saw Bugs Bunny and Mickey Mouse side by side. That movie scared the crap out of me when I was a kid too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightWing Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 I keep forgetting that it was made by Disney. I mean, it's so wildly different to what I'd normally expect from a Disney film, and they somehow managed to get appearances from characters who were owned by other companies. My jaw hit the floor when I first saw Bugs Bunny and Mickey Mouse side by side. That movie scared the crap out of me when I was a kid too. I concur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elnino14 Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 Just finished watching Berserk anime series and as I continued watching it and watching it, I slowly began to regain my memory of why I stopped watching anime in the first place. Also I've begun watching Heroes from the beginning with my girlfriend, who's never seen it before, and will eventually be new for me because I stopped following after a couple episodes in the second season. I also watched SAW I and Saw II for the first time. Didn't think they were all that special, the movies are built up on tension, and I don't feel much of it, I don't care about many of the people the in the film (only the mother/daughter in the first, and the detective in the second, none of whom were in Jigsaw's traps in a way). It's a great concept, but goodness it's got some shoddy execution. I like the idea of continuity between the movies and an overarching story. It makes it cool for somebody who's been following the series from the beginning, but also from what I've seen, each movie can stand on it's own decently. The first one was all over the place and the pieces didn't fit together (no pun intended) but the second one was more focused on the detective chase, not a ton of flashbacks to the victim's lives (like the first one did with the doctor). Excellent concept, cool traps but with terrible execution, crappy acting (especially in the first one from the doctor), and bad, just bad plotting. Anyways 3 more of these movies left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc20willsave Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 Just watched Pan's Labyrinth. I am very impressed. A great movie visually, very emotional. This is why cinema, when done right, is art. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koete Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 My Bloody Valentine 3D is terrible, watch the new Friday The 13th instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuaveStar Posted October 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 My Bloody Valentine 3D is terrible, watch the new Friday The 13th instead. He's right, it is awful. I watched Treehouse of horror 20, and boy was it shit, I didn't laugh once, I know it's stupid for me to come in here every week and say how bad the simpsons has gotten, but this was Treehouse of Horror, they were some of the best Simpsons episodes, before they diluted the three part episode idea and made it shite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stavros Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Little Mermaid was fine, but really it only has the two good songs and "under the sea" whilst OK really wasn't the grand number I was expecting. Animation wise its patchy as well, there are some great moments and some dodgy ones. I'll have to place this lower on my Disney ranking than I was expecting given the hype. Aladdin was overall far stronger and punchier. Now I guess its just down to Beauty and The Beast to be able to fully rank Disney's golden period. Lion King is still firmly no. 1, and really I'm betting on BatB being 3 or 4. I guess I just think that Disney's male leads are more fun than their moony-eyed princesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc20willsave Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Little Mermaid was fine, but really it only has the two good songs and "under the sea" whilst OK really wasn't the grand number I was expecting. Animation wise its patchy as well, there are some great moments and some dodgy ones. I'll have to place this lower on my Disney ranking than I was expecting given the hype. Aladdin was overall far stronger and punchier. Now I guess its just down to Beauty and The Beast to be able to fully rank Disney's golden period. Lion King is still firmly no. 1, and really I'm betting on BatB being 3 or 4. I guess I just think that Disney's male leads are more fun than their moony-eyed princesses. Beauty and the Beast is my number 1 (and actually in my personal top 5 movies of all time.) One of the reasons it succeeds is that Belle is not the standard Disney Princess. She's smart, kinda kick-ass, not afraid of saying what's on her mind, and tends to act instead of react. She tells off The Beast on a couple of occasions in the movie. Plus, the movie is supported by having one of the least one-dimensional villains, a number of really fun songs, some gorgeous animation, and probably only one side-kick that comes off as unnecessary. Some people say that 1991 was a slow year but I'll contend that Beauty and the Beast definitely deserved it's Best Picture nomination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothian Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Beauty and the Beast > The Little Mermaid. The reason? Gaston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc20willsave Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Beauty and the Beast > The Little Mermaid. The reason? Gaston. No one's slick as Gaston, No one's quick as Gaston, No one's neck's as incredibly thick as Gaston's. My what a guy, Gaston! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightWing Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 My Disney list goes: Beauty and the Beast The Lion King The Little Mermaid Tarzan Mulan Aladdin Pocahontas Hercules Those aren't necessarily in order of production quality, but my personal favorites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venneh Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Also, watching Boondock Saints to celebrate being done with the first draft of the lit review. Beauty and the Beast > The Little Mermaid. The reason? Gaston. No one's slick as Gaston, No one's quick as Gaston, No one's neck's as incredibly thick as Gaston's. My what a guy, Gaston! Gosh, it disturbs me to see you Gaston, Looking so down in the dumps! Every guy here'd love to be you, Gaston Even when taking your lumps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 I love Gaston because "Preston" fits his song perfectly, and gives me something to sing when really drunk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Dark City: Director's Cut - Probably in my top five favorite movies of all time. Never get tired of watching it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stavros Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Due South Pilot Episode. I used to love this show, and its one of the few I've returned to and still really enjoyed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DCAUFan1051 Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Transformers 2: Revenge Of The Fallen It's The Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown Iron Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koete Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 I forgot how fucking funny The Office is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuaveStar Posted October 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Episode 5 of Dexter. Trinity kicks ass! Next week has the debut of the REAL Dynamic duo, Dexter and trinity meet face to face.! I can't wait, this series has been awesome so far. I say LaGuerta is going to be the big kill for trinity this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DCAUFan1051 Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Tom & Jerry Cartoons both from the Hanna Barbera Era and The Chuck Jones Collection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stavros Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 I watching some Castle and its fun, but honestly after the Wire this sort of cut and dried cop action doesn't really work for me anymore. I like Amanda Stahl, I think she's solid, but its really only Fillion and the relationships he forms that keeps me in this. The show has enough potential to actually abandon the single case per episode structure and actually explore the characters a bit more. I'd like to have seen this concept on Showtime, not that it needs to be more adult, just more adultly written. edit: scratch that, the pulpy daftness has become endearing. Rick Castle sat in a police cruiser humming his own action theme before getting in a fight at which point the theme kicks in properly? Classic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc20willsave Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 It's The Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown is on. Still one of my favourite holiday specials of all time. "I Got a rock." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Thanks to iTunes offering the pilot for free, I just watched White Collar, and I'm glad to say it's a fun, smart show with some great characters and a storyline that will easily carry the program forward. I don't watch much episodic TV, but I can see myself sticking with this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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