Dwayne McDuffie Fired From Justice League


Koete

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Writer Dwayne McDuffie revealed today on his message board that he’s been fired from Justice League of America, saying “it was my own doing.”

His dismissal came after “Lying in the Gutters” columnist Rich Johnston “ran a compilation of two years or so of my answers to fans’ questions on the DC Comics discussion boards,” McDuffie posted, referencing this May 4th column. “I’m told my removal had nothing to with either the quality of my work or the level of sales, rather with my revelation of behind-the-scenes creative discussions.”

If you look through the column, you’ll see several statements that show McDuffie’s frustrations with working on the title, from comments on how the Anansi storyline was “about my not having control of the stories in my book” to remarks about how DC’s big guns — from Superman and Batman to Green Arrow and Captain Marvel — weren’t available for his use.

“I’m doing ‘Cap’s Kooky Quartet’,” McDuffie wrote. “Of course, in this case Captain America isn’t available, either.”

Full report here.

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Personally, I'm torn here. On one hand, I do feel that if McDuffie had had more creative control, we could have had something like Justice League. On the other hand, you work with the tools you were given and try to make the most with them. To be fair as well, he did dig his own hole in this case. You can't complain about your job in a place you know your boss will read it. Geoff Jones, I could see getting away with it but that's because he is, quite frankly, DC right now. Dwayne, consider yourself lucky that your Milestone project isn't going into development hell. Still, maybe we'll get someone awesome on Justice League now. *fingers crossed*C'mon Gail Simone.*fingers crossed*

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Even more awful than Meltzer!?

Way worse. As much as you can fault Meltzer for his stories, he knows the characters inside and out. Few have been able to capture their voices as well as him.

McDuffie had it with just cardboard cutouts all talking the same. It was awful. It appeared he wanted to excite people by having the greatest hits of villains showing up but that didn't even work.

Bottom line: if you're a name, you can produce as much shit as you want until you talk trash about editorial behind their backs.

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I honestly think that most of DC's ongoing series are "meh" these days. I mean, there's some great stuff going on with the Super-family and Green Lantern, but it seems like everything else is taking a backseat.

And that's different from Marvel in what way?

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I honestly think that most of DC's ongoing series are "meh" these days. I mean, there's some great stuff going on with the Super-family and Green Lantern, but it seems like everything else is taking a backseat.

I'll agree with you until next Wednesday.

batman-robin-20090310030958573.jpg

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I honestly think that most of DC's ongoing series are "meh" these days. I mean, there's some great stuff going on with the Super-family and Green Lantern, but it seems like everything else is taking a backseat.

I'm giving JSA some time post-Johns but I'm not sure about it yet. Aside from that, GL and the upcoming Batman stuff DC's not that big for me. There was a time when my DC books out numbered Marvel but thats long gone now.

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And that's different from Marvel in what way?

I'm actually interested in nearly all of Marvel's major books, from Dark Avengers to New Avengers to Spider-Man to X-men (well, two of them :P).

I'll agree with you until next Wednesday.

batman-robin-20090310030958573.jpg

I'm almost giddy with excitement. :D

I'm giving JSA some time post-Johns but I'm not sure about it yet. Aside from that, GL and the upcoming Batman stuff DC's not that big for me. There was a time when my DC books out numbered Marvel but thats long gone now.

Yeah, it's so weird. A few years ago you couldn't have paid me to say that Marvel was doing better, but after Secret War, Civil War, and the fallout from all of that, the Marvel Universe has just rocketed ahead. They've really gotten a handle on how to manage all their storylines; it's impressive. DC has certain advantages (like the fact that they don't pretend that their stories are a type of pseudo-reality), but they also kind of have their heads up their own exhaust ports with all of their high-and-mighty "artist" mentality. It's like they think that people don't actually have to like what they write as long as they deem it to be "artistic."

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I think Marvel trying to tie together their universe is a big plus for them. DC is always packed with so much crazy stuff its impossible to have any real street level heros. Daredevil could never exist in DC. Marvel has a strong base of heroes in almost all aspects, mythical, mystical, scientific, street-level, everything. DC has those heros but they can't be used to their fullest extent due to the nature of the DC universe, almost all books contain a cavalcade of bizarre powers and foes.

The reason GL is so good is that a the major player have similar abilities and motifs and thus the interaction and engagement takes place with a certain set of expectations. When those are defied, like with Hal and the Blue/Green rings it actually gets our interest because its unusual.

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I think Marvel trying to tie together their universe is a big plus for them. DC is always packed with so much crazy stuff its impossible to have any real street level heros. Daredevil could never exist in DC. Marvel has a strong base of heroes in almost all aspects, mythical, mystical, scientific, street-level, everything. DC has those heros but they can't be used to their fullest extent due to the nature of the DC universe, almost all books contain a cavalcade of bizarre powers and foes.

When Gangbuster is the closest to a real street-level hero you have, that is true. However, outside of Daredevil, none of Marvel's street characters interest me. I don't read comics most of the time for stuff close to true crime. I read comics for the crazy shit. That all said, I am highly looking forward to Streets of Gotham because I'm hoping for something that feels like Gotham Central which was the closest to a good Street Level comic DC has done since Chuck Dixon's early run on Birds of Prey. God, Dixon is just good at that aspect of comics in general.

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I would argue that the only reason Daredevil exists is because of a street level hero like Batman whose very existence defines the DCU.

The "reality" level that Marvel is pushing for is really only a phenomenon of the past 10-15 years. Whereas I think DC's compartmentality works for it that way where you have the Bat-Family and the Titans on one end and Superman on the other. Which is why smaller events work for DC (Bat-Family stuff, Superman Family stuff) really well and the big stuff is hit or miss. In fact, the big events are almost always pretty damned good for DC but are often handled poorly by a large amount of the titles tying in.

I would also argue that Secret Invasion was a debacle that may or may not be handled well in its aftermath. I wouldn't know because it caused me to drop the publisher almost wholesale. Terrible.

Civil War I thought was pretty great (even though it ended outside of the actual miniseries) but was terribly handled by a slew of the tie-ins. there's really not much difference.

Editorially, the handling of events is pretty piecemeal by both companies. In the end, Marvel has moved to a status quo level of events where it can be handled wonderfully if everyone buys in (World War Hulk?) and DC has a sharp single impact that has fallout but doesn't force a status quo on the entire line. To each their own but I prefer the latter.

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I don't even know what to make of that last statement.

I may have been only thinking about Grant Morrison. Sorry! :rolleyes:

I would also argue that Secret Invasion was a debacle that may or may not be handled well in its aftermath. I wouldn't know because it caused me to drop the publisher almost wholesale. Terrible.

I wholeheartedly agree. I hated Secret Invasion; it was like a cheesy action movie pretending to be The Lord of the Rings crossed with The Dark Knight, The Matrix, and the real-life Iraq War. The fallout is kind of cool, though.

I hope that Justice League gets more stuff to do in the future; in the right hands it's one of my favorite sections of the DCU.

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I don't even know what to make of that last statement.

I may have been only thinking about Grant Morrison. Sorry! :rolleyes:

Final Crisis is better event-wise than anything Marvel has done the past couple of years. Hands down. Civil War comes very close. In fact, Morrison's Marvel work with FF:1234, Marvel Boy and X-Men are creative peaks for the publisher. Best X-Men work to date.

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Final Crisis is better event-wise than anything Marvel has done the past couple of years. Hands down. Civil War comes very close. In fact, Morrison's Marvel work with FF:1234, Marvel Boy and X-Men are creative peaks for the publisher. Best X-Men work to date.

I was more referring to his work in principle, not always in practice. Sometimes he has the notion that "if people don't like it, then they just didn't get the point," which may be true, but I don't always agree with that philosophy. I personally love his work, but I know that it drives a lot of people insane. (Batman: RIP and Final Crisis specifically)

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That's part of my problem though. If you don't tell stories that make people think and make you do work then comics can't be considered an art. You don't think people read Watchmen and all got it do you?

Grant Morrison, for the most part, writes art. He tells stories that defines characters in the way that Alan Moore does, he just happens to be slightly more psychedelic about it.

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I was more referring to his work in principle, not always in practice. Sometimes he has the notion that "if people don't like it, then they just didn't get the point," which may be true, but I don't always agree with that philosophy. I personally love his work, but I know that it drives a lot of people insane. (Batman: RIP and Final Crisis specifically)

I hate whenever this gets brought up (not in this thread, just in general). Morrison is my all-time favorite comics writer, and while I'm sure there are fans of his who think this way, I like to believe the majority of us just have a "no big deal, probably just wasn't your cup of tea" mentality. And yes, it was absolutely insane during Final Crisis and Batman R.I.P. You couldn't go to most message boards and say you actually liked those storylines without being labeled as an apologist.

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Exactly. He writes comics as more than they are. It's the only way the form moves forward. Not everyone likes it but that doesn't matter. If everyone liked it then it wouldn't be good. It's challenging, not spoon-fed and that is why I love his work.

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I would argue that the only reason Daredevil exists is because of a street level hero like Batman whose very existence defines the DCU.

True, Daredevil owes a lot to the legacy of Batman, but like I said DC has the heroes to fulfill the archetypes and doesn't use them to do so. Batman isn't a street level hero, and nothing in his recent history can match DD for consistancy and storytelling. This is because Daredevil plays by a consistant set of rules and Batman is all over the place. Daredevil has had two writers, Batman has had 20.

The same has happened with the big events. Marvel, whatever you may think of them, manage to make sense of having a lot of tie-ins to their events, they effect everyone on some level for good reasons. DC's company-wide events are either so sprawling that the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing (Infinite Crisis) or so compartmentalised that they can be easily ignored for the most part (Final Crisis). The last truly good big DC event was Identity Crisis because it took one thing and created a story based on the reactions of the entire hero community.

I'll certainly agree that DC has more success with small events like the Green Lantern storylines of recent years but the success rate still isn't great there. I was really into the current Supergirl book until the New Krypton storyline ruined it for me, and the Lightning Saga was pretty bad as well. Batman events of recent years havn't blown me away either, War Games has had no lasting impact at all.

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To be fair, Batman's had an event for every year for the past 20 years. Not every one is going to be good.

Identity Crisis wasn't even an event. It was a miniseries.

I think we can officially say that this thread is derailed.

Bringing it back around, if McDuffie was Morrison and writing for Marvel then things would be good.

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