Episode 342

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28 Days Later #1, Army of Darkness: Ash Saves Obama #1, Batman: The Widening Gyre #1, and The Darkness / Pitt #1 are all about zombies and demons. But Fantastic Four #570 sees the debut of a brand new creative team, one that could push the title back to its rightful place as Marvel's flagship comic book. [ 1:11:14 || 33.0 MB ]

The above is from: http://www.earth-2.net/theshow/episodes/e2ts_342.mp3

[Venneh]

Agreed with you on Widening Gyre; I'm giving it a flip-through for the next issue before picking it up, cause the first was pretty damn painful.

Also, re: your rant about the Dark Reign tie-ins: I'm kind of interested in seeing a BS segment about all the current Marvel events going on and all the tie-ins, frankly. xD

[SuaveStar]

I wouldn't touch the Ash saves Obama anyway, as it does seem like a cheap cash in.

Also, from issue 1, Ash's appearance in freddy vs jason vs ash, he's not as fun in comics, as when Bruce Campbell played him.

[Dread]

Agreed with you on Widening Gyre; I'm giving it a flip-through for the next issue before picking it up, cause the first was pretty damn painful.

Also, re: your rant about the Dark Reign tie-ins: I'm kind of interested in seeing a BS segment about all the current Marvel events going on and all the tie-ins, frankly. xD

I think we have had event fatigue on the top of the list for months but we keep bumping it for more of the timely stuff. We'll get to it.

[Stavros]

Agreed with you on Widening Gyre; I'm giving it a flip-through for the next issue before picking it up, cause the first was pretty damn painful.

Also, re: your rant about the Dark Reign tie-ins: I'm kind of interested in seeing a BS segment about all the current Marvel events going on and all the tie-ins, frankly. xD

I think we have had event fatigue on the top of the list for months but we keep bumping it for more of the timely stuff. We'll get to it.

I'd be interested to hear thoughts on this but I hope it wouldn't all be downside. Events are a good way for a company to maintain profits, solidify their universe and provide a boost to lesser titles. I can't blame Marvel for pushing World War Hulk, Secret Invasion or Dark Reign. The build up to both SI and WWH was tremendous, it was only the final main series that let the whole thing down, and Dark Reign is avoiding that sort of definitive end right now, its more of an overall era which is kicking all sorts of ass. Its not like most of the minis are required reading, no-one misses out by not reading Dark Wolverine or The Sinister Spider-man. The important stuff is in the Dark and New Avengers and the mini-event going on with the X-men right now.

[Dread]

Well, for those of us who don't buy the set-up (supervillain becoming ruler of the free world because he shot somebody slightly worse) then the whole thing is a pile of shit.

[Stavros]

Well, for those of us who don't buy the set-up (supervillain becoming ruler of the free world because he shot somebody slightly worse) then the whole thing is a pile of shit.

He ran the most successful villain rehabilitation unit in the initiative and parleyed that into replacing Tony Stark after the Skrull debacle was publically defeated by him. In the real world no, it wouldn't happen, but this is comics, its a lot more believable than Lex Luthor: President and its actually got some mileage with the ongoing stories. Its all about an essentially corrupt authority that is only limited by being forced to present a positive public profile, whilst attempting to control all superhuman activity. I have zero problem with Norman Osbourne's rise to power.

[Missy]

I kinda believe Norman's rise to power; the citizens of the Marvel Universe are tired of superheroes and SHIELD failing to save them, and now they want someone / something different running the show.

The superhero civil war should have never happened, but it did and that instilled fear of heroes in the general population. After the pro-SRA side won, the super-powered shenanigans should have ended, but they only got worse. First The Hulk returned to Earth and really made a mess of things, which could have been avoided had Stark and his buddies given themselves over to The Hulk. Marvel never showed it, which is a shame, but I have to believe that made people see Tony and Reed as selfish bastards. The seeds of doubt were beginning to sprout, and they only truly blossomed once the Skrull invasion was revealed. These so-called superheroes might have been aliens all along, and that Tony and SHIELD couldn't stop another threat was the final straw. So when Norman took his shot and ended the war, the people of the world were willing to hand the keys over to him.

Yes they know he used to be The Green Goblin, but that's worked in his favor; Tony was a superhero who'd make compromises, but Norman won't. And the people of the MU, right now, want someone who will do everything in his power to protect them.

[Stavros]

That's exactly it. Dark Reign asks if freedom at any price is really freedom at all.

[Missy]

The problem is, I wish we saw a lot of this from the point-of-view of the common man. It's why Front Line needs to be an ongoing, to address these issues that the main titles can't.

[Dread]

Marvel tells us all the time that they exist in the real world. The real president faked his way into a war, plainly ordered torture and bragged about it, and drove the world economy into the shitter like Slim Pickens in Strangelove and still lasted two terms.

You're telling me that they turn so quickly on Stark? I disagree. Especially when Stark did nothing wrong other than use a national tragedy to lead a war that cost a lot of American lives. But he won.

[Missy]

If I recall, the economy didn't go shitty until after Bush was elected the second time. As for Bush's war, it's overseas, so it's this distant thing we only see on the TV. The only people it touches are those with family in the military.

However, Stark's actions led directly to three wars, as well as two invasions of America*: first by The Hulk, then by the Skrulls. Had he and the Illuminati not launched him into space, Hulk would never have sought vengeance. Same goes for the Skrulls: because the Illuminati blew them to bits, the Skrulls demanded revenge. In the first case, New York City was destroyed. In the second, countless lives were lost around the globe. Due to that, the American people were more directly affected. So yes, I'm willing to believe that people would force Tony out of power and not Bush.

Also consider things in comic book time. In our time we had Civil War in 2006-2007, World War Hulk in 2007, then Secret Invasion in 2008-2009. For us that spans a few years, but for the people in the Marvel Universe that's maybe 12 months tops. You think we're sick of seeing these big superhero crossovers that lead to one war after another? Try living in that world! It wouldn't take much for the people to turn on political leaders.

*I know the Skrulls invaded the world, but I'm looking at how the American people would view Stark in comparison to how they saw Bush.

[Dread]

If I recall, the economy didn't go shitty until after Bush was elected the second time. As for Bush's war, it's overseas, so it's this distant thing we only see on the TV. The only people it touches are those with family in the military.

Still, he inherited the best economy in American history since post WW2 from Clinton and did everything in his power to fuck it up.

Regardless, I honestly don't give a shit about this except to compare it to real world. Therefore it's not worth arguing about.

Marvel's MO is why I no longer read their books. Other than Cap.

[Missy]

Still, he inherited the best economy in American history since post WW2 from Clinton and did everything in his power to fuck it up.

Hey, you're not going to hear me defending Bush. I'm just saying, it didn't happen until his second term. And really, we don't have a good, speedy system to unseat leaders who have really made a mess of things.

Regardless, I honestly don't give a shit about this except to compare it to real world. Therefore it's not worth arguing about.

And that's what I'm doing here. Crap economy and an overseas war versus three American-based wars and two American / world invasions. (And if you want, you can toss a "crap economy" into the MU mix when you consider the events of Captain America.) Also remember that Tony wasn't elected; he was put into power by politicians. They removed him as soon as the tide turned.

Marvel's MO is why I no longer read their books. Other than Cap.

What MO is that?

[Dread]

What MO is that?

Taking a plot point from an event and creating a status quo that everyone must adhere to. Forcing countless stories of Dark Reign or whatever the flavour of the month is constantly down the reader's throats. Their two best books right now? Captain America, where it is barely mentioned, and FF. where it isn't mentioned at all.

[grahamvidger]

I am going to defend Batman: Widening Gyre #1. Its fun to see this Batman and Robin in one of today's monthly issues. Robin has a German line in the first part of this issue. Does he actually really know German? If so, that is awesome. This book is new reader friendly in the way that it is good at bringing in new readers. Kevin smith, popular name that would get new readers into Batman. This book explains the story of Dick Grayson and shows who Batman is. And when they go to Arkham it shows new readers all of the Batman rogues gallery. The art in this book is great, just all the stuff when he is at Arkham and when he is going there. I actually liked how Smith did Etrigan, including his Shakespeare like rhyming. You will look back at this book in the future as a good book when it is collected into a trade.

[Missy]

Its fun to see this Batman and Robin in one of today's monthly issues.

I like seeing the original Dynamic Duo interact, but this wasn't anything close to how they are with each other. As Des said, their dialog in the store was false. And their interactions elsewhere were flat.

This book is new reader friendly in the way that it is good at bringing in new readers. Kevin smith, popular name that would get new readers into Batman.

There's two problems with that. The first is that Kevin Smith is not as popular as you think. He has his fans, but a lot of those are already reading comic books. Secondly, DC isn't advertising this, so it's not going to grab people if they don't know about it.

This book explains the story of Dick Grayson and shows who Batman is.

What story? That he used to be Robin then grew up and became Nightwing? So far it has nothing to do with the story, so it was wasted pages.

And when they go to Arkham it shows new readers all of the Batman rogues gallery.

If they're new readers, they're not going to know who those people are, so again, "wasted pages."

The art in this book is great, just all the stuff when he is at Arkham and when he is going there.

No.

I actually liked how Smith did Etrigan, including his Shakespeare like rhyming.

I stopped reading the dialog at that point, so I can't comment. Des...?

You will look back at this book in the future as a good book when it is collected into a trade.

Maybe, but highly doubtful, if only because this art is terrible and I never want to see it again.

[Dread]

Wow...just wow.

[Stavros]

What MO is that?

Taking a plot point from an event and creating a status quo that everyone must adhere to. Forcing countless stories of Dark Reign or whatever the flavour of the month is constantly down the reader's throats. Their two best books right now? Captain America, where it is barely mentioned, and FF. where it isn't mentioned at all.

I think its more of a take it or leave it deal. Books like Daredevil and FF kept it in the background but DR is still a feature, just one the writers could use as they pleased. As for Captain America Dark Reign is big in that title right now, and I think you'll agree that Civil War had a bit of an impact on it as well.

[dc20willsave]

Smith's comic book writing is variable at best to me. He's at his best when the editorial staff gives him some room to play around with, to set a status quo or when he's working with his own characters. For example, his runs on Daredevil and Green Arrow effectively relaunched the characters after either death or a period of languishing in obscurity. Then take his recent Batman minis or the Spider-Man/Black Cat mini he did for Marvel a few years back. In both cases, Smith is working with stories that were barely in continuity and he is given almost limitless amounts of space to mess around with. In the case of Black Cat, we get a pointless rape back story added to Felicia Hardings character. In the case of Cacophony, we get a Batman that doesn't quite shut up. If Smith has a real ongoing, I would probably read it but minis, probably not.

[SuaveStar]

You know what makes me laugh, hearing this first issue was shit to some, and ok to others, which in all fairness is what comics are all about, differing thoughts.

The thing that makes me laugh is that Smith, in the intro for Cacophany, says that was just a test run for him to dothe best Batman story he can do, Widening Gyre. That's right, he took the intro to one new book and said "This is just me throwing shit at the wall, but this other thing, your not conisdering buying, I'd get that, dump this overpriced shite"

I see Smith doing what he did with Spider-man here, taking time to do other stuff and not finishing the story,DC shouldn't have just said "Wow, he did a three issue mini, that was bland, maybe he has changed!" he has the first six issues, then a break, then part two, another six issues of this story.

That's right, DC is lieing, it's a 12 part story not six.

Anyway, rant over, who's up for Tennis?

[Dread]

I think its more of a take it or leave it deal. Books like Daredevil and FF kept it in the background but DR is still a feature, just one the writers could use as they pleased. As for Captain America Dark Reign is big in that title right now, and I think you'll agree that Civil War had a bit of an impact on it as well.

But then you get into the other problem. You had big guns like Bendis throw the ball up in the air for Pak to make his career on WWh and then everyone pretended it didn't happen. When 95% of Marvel takes place in NY and none of them talk about how it has been demolished let alone show it, you've got a problem. WWH might as well just not have existed now.

Civil War, I would argue was actually good for the most part. It just dragged every other title in Marvel's catalogue into the shitter. The only thing Cap's been doing is trying to find the Human Torch in China to my recollection. If it ties in majorly to DR after Reborn, then I'm out too.

[Missy]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't recall Bendis being the one who set up WWH. That was Daniel Way over in The Incredible Hulk.

[Dread]

Didn't Bendis shoot him into space?

[Missy]

That was done by the Illuminati, but I don't think it was done in any of Bendis' books. I'm 99% sure it was done in The Incredible Hulk.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, yeah, it was first shown in the New Avengers: Illuminati one-shot, and then expanded upon in The Hulk.