Episode 70


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As to the discussion about 8 months, remember, that's not since the end of Secret Origins. That's since early in Part 2, when Diana leaves the island. We had discussed that the final scene in the Watchtower likely happened weeks or months after the invasion, giving time to make the final modifications on the satellite Wayne was probably already building for his deep space monitoring project.

That's what I meant. In fact, didn't I say the timeline was "bullshit" because it had to have taken longer than eight months to have built the Watchtower?

I'm a bit confused now on who's taking which viewpoint (it's still early here, and I haven't had enough coffee yet). Here's how I see it:

X-z: Coffee discovered. Civilization develops.

X-y (where y is the time needed to build a satellite): At some point Wayne Industries begins major construction on a monitoring satellite.

Time X: An expedition to Mars unlocks the White Martians.

X + 2 years Batman discovers White Martians infiltrating his Earth-based monitoring station. Superman ignores this to disarm nukes on behalf of the most junior Senator, given that in 2 years he returned from Mars (not a short trip), ran for office, won, and was sworn in.

X + 2 years, six months: aliens invade. Chaos ensues. Diana leaves Themyscira. Watne industries makes a few last minute modifications to the satellite they've been building.

X + 2 years, 8 months: Watchtower christened. Official founding of the Justice League

X + 3 years, 2 months: Diana returns to Themyscira.

X + 80000000000000 years: Heat death of the universe. No more coffee.

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As to the discussion about 8 months, remember, that's not since the end of Secret Origins. That's since early in Part 2, when Diana leaves the island. We had discussed that the final scene in the Watchtower likely happened weeks or months after the invasion, giving time to make the final modifications on the satellite Wayne was probably already building for his deep space monitoring project.

That's what I meant. In fact, didn't I say the timeline was "bullshit" because it had to have taken longer than eight months to have built the Watchtower?

I sent you guys an email (unfortunately, RIGHT before the last episode of WFP went up) about how WayneTech had Kryptonian technology that they got from Brainiac in "Knight Time." Heck, if you look at the Javelin-7, it's got a lot of design aesthetic that looks straight from Kal-El's escape craft.

32.jpg

Pointed convex design, side engines/wings that rotate for landing, a smooth window that's flush with the hull, the color of the metal, etc.

It's totally conceivable that both the Watchtower and the Javelin were built with WayneTech's knowledge of Kryptonian tech, so there's no real way to know how long it would take.

(also, this would explain how the Javelin had a warp drive / hyperdrive /improbability drive / whatever)

Furthermore, we are talking about an animated universe in which the SWAT team has laser rifles. I don't know if technology is really something to be examined realistically.

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i fail to see what is particularly innovative or amazing about the opening of Gladiator aside from the fact that it's a big-budget Hollywood battle sequence. i'd much rather the immersive multi-camera setup of a Kurosawa battle scene ala The Seven Samurai or the experimentation in film scoring of the battle on the ice in Eisenstein's Alexander Nevsky.

i rather like The Brave and the Bold. i think that like every season one episode, the animation is incredibly stiff and blocky, but it's such an awesome, light story. War World is seriously one of the worst things of all time (can't wait till Superman starts getting good stories in season 2 [Twilight and Hereafter are phenomenal]) and Paradise Lost i think has some of the better storyboarding and direction in its second part. seriously surprised there was no mention of the reused animation from Speed Demons.

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i fail to see what is particularly innovative or amazing about the opening of Gladiator aside from the fact that it's a big-budget Hollywood battle sequence. i'd much rather the immersive multi-camera setup of a Kurosawa battle scene ala The Seven Samurai or the experimentation in film scoring of the battle on the ice in Eisenstein's Alexander Nevsky.

I can take or leave the action in that film. Its nice to see an update on those battle sequences but it isn't what makes the film. The important stuff is the relationships between Maxiumus, Marcus Aurelius and Commodus. That's what makes it worth watching. That and the classic gravelly-voiced quote-

"My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next."

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I concur with the above and proclaim both James & Mr Mxyzptlk wrong on Gladiator. Granted I'm drinking to take the edge off of tomorrow's big presentation, but that doesn't make my damning of your wrongness any less pronounced.

But on topic, I love 'The Brave and the Bold'. I know there are many flubs, but this is the defining episode of the Flash/GL friendship, which is one of my favourite Justice League pairings. I know 'In Blackest Night' is the foundation, but this is the two of them teaming up against a threat, and GL having to reign in the seemingly reckless Flash.

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i fail to see what is particularly innovative or amazing about the opening of Gladiator aside from the fact that it's a big-budget Hollywood battle sequence. i'd much rather the immersive multi-camera setup of a Kurosawa battle scene ala The Seven Samurai or the experimentation in film scoring of the battle on the ice in Eisenstein's Alexander Nevsky.

I can take or leave the action in that film. Its nice to see an update on those battle sequences but it isn't what makes the film. The important stuff is the relationships between Maxiumus, Marcus Aurelius and Commodus. That's what makes it worth watching. That and the classic gravelly-voiced quote-

"My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next."

it's been forever since i've seen the film, but what sticks out to me are irritating frame-rate fluctuations in battle-scenes, an overall sense of bland, beige coloration and overuse of hard lighting to intensify the extent to which the film is an epic drama to the point of excess, and just the general over-archetyping of traditional dramatic character types. the line you quote is to me a primary example of lame, calculated and melodramatic Hollywood screenwriting. i can see why the mass audience of casual moviegoers loves it; i just absolutely can't buy that it has any notable importance in the context of film history. the film wouldn't be nearly as beloved if not for the [unconvincing] action sequences and excessive machismo of Russel Crowe.

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Hey I get it, Gladiator isn't some all-time masterpiece. What it is a fun call-back to the matinee films i used to watch as a kid, the period epics. Believe me, when me and my boss quote that line at work its not because its the best line in film history, its because its just balls-out mad, macho and daft. I can definitely understand problems people have with it, I just think that as an overall package its worth watching.

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I remember that at the time of its release, when I was [CENSORED SO AS TO NOT MAKE PEOPLE FEEL OLD], I thought that The Brave and the Bold was the best episode of JL yet.

You, sir, are a true gentleman.

Bats and Diana do more flirting in "Maid Of Honor" and "Starcrossed".

I agree with James, Grodd was such a great villain in JL. It made it all the more disappointing to hear him as Lex Luthor in "Brainiac Attacks" - if he'd just played Lex as Grodd, it would have been much improved.

Flash not catching up to the van is mirrored in Part 2 by GL not catching up to the missiles, I guess.

Solovar was played by David Ogden Stiers from "MASH", who also played the first live-action Martian Manhunter.

During Geoff Johns' run on the Flash, it was explicity stated that Central City (Barry's turf) is in Missouri, while its sister city Keystone (Jay Garrick & Wally's preferred location) is in Kansas, making them the analogue of the Kansas City area. I believe Jay was born in Keystone, while Barry was born in Iowa and Walley in Blue Valley, Nebraska. Granted, this is the comics; the DCAU never identified it's location, although I remember some scenes in "Flash & Substance" that reminded my of downtown KC (the one time I was there). Hey, if "Smallville" is right, and Metropolis is in Kansas, maybe that explains the Metropolis PD in Central City.

Chris

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another reason to believe the guy in wally's memories who got struck by lightning was barry, proof of previous flashes in the dcau: from flash and substance: Jay Garrick souvenir helmet

Jay_Garrick_display.jpg

and the kid flash display is the same costume from teen titans:

Kid_Flash_display.jpg

12.jpg

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Sorry, didn't know about that thread. I'm not saying whether Titans is in continuity or not (my opinion is it is though) I was just pointing out that there have been previous flashes and kid flashes in the DCAU

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Fail on Mongul hating. One of Superman's best villains. Read "For the Man who has Everything" sometime. Or a recent Green Lantern Corps book and you'll find he's the best untapped villain resource DC has.

You guys seem super hard on these episodes. This stuff is better than damn near everything else DCAU has to offer. Maybe a couple BTAS epis and MOTP are better but I mean really!

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Fail on Mongul hating. One of Superman's best villains. Read "For the Man who has Everything" sometime. Or a recent Green Lantern Corps book and you'll find he's the best untapped villain resource DC has.

I don't know about "the best untapped villain resource," but yeah, I think he's a good villain.

You guys seem super hard on these episodes. This stuff is better than damn near everything else DCAU has to offer. Maybe a couple BTAS epis and MOTP are better but I mean really!

Ehh... the first season of JLU is pretty rough. I agree with most of Mike and James' sentiment. I think that the average episode of Superman, Batman, or maybe even Batman Beyond is better than JL Season 1. The other series just had the advantage of being able to focus on one character and letting the story do its thing, while JL S1 deliberately ignored a ton of character content.

Season 2, now, that's a TOTALLY different matter...

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I, too, kinda like Mongul. He's definitely great in For the Man Who Has Everything. And I don't know if it's true, but he was allegedly conceived as a parody of Thanos, who was allegedly a straight knockoff of Darkseid (I think I read that on wiki a looooong time ago, and I can't find it now, so please correct me if I'm totally wrong). So if you just view him as a poor man's comedy Darkseid, even a poorly written, boring story can be made somewhat tolerable.

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i think that JL season one is easily the worst in all of the DCAU. this is one of the few times i would applaud James and Mike for their meticulous exposure of continuity/logic flaws and such because they really grate here. also worst animation in the DCAU besides the B:TAS episodes animated by AKOM, and the color palette is insufferably bland. of course JL season two then becomes one of the greatest things of all time, so it's forgivable.

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Obviously I'm alone in my thoughts but on the "definitive version" email:

Hawkgirl is the only one who hits definitively for me on the DCAU JL.

J'onn is close but Giffen/DeMatteis did it a hell of a lot better.

Close again with Flash but Waid and Johns hit that.

As far as the others. Not even close.

In fact, the DCAU Batman - especially as he appears in the JL - is the distillation of the worst the character has to offer. Too often he's used as a deus ex machina and represents the invinciBat that everyone rails against everywhere else.

Definitive Batman? Neal Adams. Same for the Joker, though Killing Joke might edge that out. Definitive John Stewart was in the Mosaic storyline in the late 80s (early nineties?).

Luthor? Maybe DCAU actually. Kind of prepresents the best of all the interpretations of the character with none of the bad. Though he's a little easily outsmarted for my liking. Funnily enough Red Son might be the definitive Luthor.

Superman? I don't care enough about the character to really think too hard on it. Perhaps the Fleischer cartoons. Best in moving pictures anyway.

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In fact, the DCAU Batman - especially as he appears in the JL - is the distillation of the worst the character has to offer. Too often he's used as a deus ex machina and represents the invinciBat that everyone rails against everywhere else.

See, I always saw Batman in JL as being a slightly different side of his character because he was acting differently in his role with the League. If you take it in context with BTAS, he's the definitive Batman. Yeah, he has deus ex machina, but when is it ever unbelievable? Salt water?

I agree with you on all the rest. Hawkgirl's great, and Flash is very close.

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