Episode 72


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Guest DCAUFan1051

Great episode guys... here is the hugging :D

JLTSTPart2.jpg

it was such a weird and wacky moment. However very awesome. This may be an art image for The Savage Time when I get to it in TSOP, not sure yet though.

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When I first watched the first part of Savage Time on tv, I decided to watch something else because I thought it was the beginning of a second part of another episode i hadn't seen, :doh: .

Good podcast guys! The first part of Savage Time is a little flawed, but the second two are really good.

EDIT:

Funny screen grab:

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Human Torch!

On another note, Green Lantern literally says that the Batman from their timeline had known them for "years". I just hav etrouble with him saying that, it totally screws up the JL timeline.

Batman says that the JL need to prove they could be on the resistance yadah yadah. then GL says:

"Are you kidding me? You've known us for years."

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On another note, Green Lantern literally says that the Batman from their timeline had known them for "years". I just hav etrouble with him saying that, it totally screws up the JL timeline.

Batman says that the JL need to prove they could be on the resistance yadah yadah. then GL says:

"Are you kidding me? You've known us for years."

You have to keep in mind that Batman very likely would have known about John Stewart's existence well before they formed the Justice League. Just go back to "Secret Origins". When GL first appears on the scene in Episode 2, he just flies right up to Superman and says, "Sorry I'm late..." That shows a clear familiarity.

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Great episode, guys. Both of Justice League and of World's Finest Podcast. Couple of comments:

Mike, my take on the EM distortion being noticed in the alternate reality is this. The electromagnetic disturbance was caused by Vandal Savage sending the computer back in time, which happened in the "real" timeline. This created the alternate reality. As the alternate reality was an offshoot of the real timeline, however, timeline-altering events would still register in some way, at the appropriate point in the timeline. So for the alternate reality to ever exist, the distortion has to occur at that point in time, even though the event triggering it technically doesn't. It's a chronal ripple or something. Maybe that doesn't make any sense at all, but then neither does any time travel story if you think about it too hard. I actually always felt the bigger plothole in the first episode was "Oh, we probably aren't affected because we were shielded by GL's ring," which never really felt like a strong reason to me. Which is all forgiveable because it sets up such an awesome story.

Second, the Blackhawk music. I'm fairly sure that I have heard or read that the (awesome) Blackhawk theme used here is a classic theme from the brief Blackhawks radio series. In fact, I think it's mentioned on the DVD commentary for this episode. A quick Google and Wiki search turned up no information about this, so I may be completely wrong, but I think there's a bit of history to that tune. I totally agree that the animation in the Blackhawks sequences is some of the best we see in this series. I haven't watched this in a while, but there's a shot in there that's a close-up of Blackhawk's face, strobe lit by his own machine gun fire, that I have always loved.

Also, since it's relevant to the ongoing discussion, I freaking love the Human Torch homage. So cool.

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Here's something that I wonder about the time travel:

Is it actually an "alternate" timeline, or the same one only altered? Because if we're talking about alternate timelines, then technically there was no way for the JL to "change" anything anyway, since any and all alternate timelines would still exist; they'd just travel between them.

And since that means that there must be "one" timeline, Vandal Savage (in the present-day) would still need to send the laptop back in time to himself in order to ensure that he would still get it. Does that make sense? Because if he didn't make sure to send the laptop back—even after altering the timeline—then he would never get it, and he'd have to start all over again.

So this means that Batman's detection of the time machine's activation in the present-day (in both the normal and Nazi Metropoli) would make sense, as the machine would have just been activated in both the original and altered versions of the timeline.

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Wow - barely made it through the e-mails on the way to work. Almost hope there's traffic going home so I can finish today.

As to the issue of Superman or J'onn towing the Javelin - never bothered me. Mike, you said that this wasn't something that would affect your score, but in case you want that issue to go away - Flash commented that they at least won the battle. Given that there aren't a lot of battlefields in the solar system, I assumed that this was an interstellar trip. GL is the only one who can cross that sort of distance. Superman may be as fast in normal space, but I don't think he has a hyperdrive shunt in his brain.

The thing I thought weird about that scene is that GL is towing the Javelin. We then flash to the inside, where...Superman has his hands on the control yoke as if he's flying. I had this mental image of him making "bvvmmmmmmm" sounds as he turned the wheel back and forth, pretending he was dogfighting or something, until he realized that Hawkgirl was giving him a Look.

Oh, and I think that Superman and Bugs Bunny was a 4 issue mini. I remember the Flash racing the Roadrunner.

Chris

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Oh, yeah - "Red Son" was converted into what I thought was a pretty decent motion comic. It's available in the iTunes store and I'm not sure where else. I think it was 10-12 parts. Came out sometime last year. Voice cast included that guy who was in that thing with that other guy. Need wake-up liquid more.

Chris

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Mike cracking up at Supes hugging Bats made me LOL.

It's never been established that Superman can breathe in space, unless its Earth-2 Superman. He can just hold his breath for super long amounts of time.

I believe that at other points ("The Return") he is seen with an oxygen mask (that way he could speak and breath, but his heat vision wouldn't punch a hole in his suit). I seem to remember something similar in the late 80's - I think it was one of the "Invasion" minis.

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If Supes can fly into the sun then he doesn't need to breathe in space. Holding his breath would cause some sort of explosion from his mouth. He doesn't need to breathe in space. The space suit thing really bugs me about JL animated.

Back in Superman The Animated Series, he was wearing a spacesuit as well. We'll just say that Animated Superman has to breathe and that's a distinction between the two.

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If Supes can fly into the sun then he doesn't need to breathe in space. Holding his breath would cause some sort of explosion from his mouth. He doesn't need to breathe in space. The space suit thing really bugs me about JL animated.

If you or I hold our breath in space, it will cause problems (and rupture our eardrums). For Superman, it shouldn't cause a problem. The main issue is oxygen (after all, no one can breathe in space; it's a question of whether you need to breathe). The problem is, this has gone back and forth so much in 70+ years of comics, we can stake out any position and find a comic reference to justify it.

I would argue that he can hold his breath longer than a human, but can't go indefinitely without oxygen (based on the DCAU portrayal). The pressure difference should not bother him in the slightest (by definition, the pressure difference is 1 atmosphere - that's the same as the difference between sea level and 33 feet or so under the water). The space suit may help regulate temperature and give him oxygen - it's not necessary, but it is more comfortable. It also gives him the ability to communicate.

In space, no one can hear you exclaim, "Great Scott!"

Chris

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On the other hand

Well, yeah, but...he's the goddamned Batman. (After all, did Bruce Timm ever explicitly say that Batman can't breathe in space? Hmm?)

Mike, I also suspected that Savage's "Another report..." was an allusion to the JSA.

James, I agree - Phil Morris's Savage was a great villain...although I always like the Magnificent Bastard. The Emperor didn't hold a candle to Peter Cushing's Governor Tarkin, in my mind.

Along with the allusions, when J'onn saw Hitler, his one word was "Fascinating" ("An alien who always says 'Fascinating' - naw, that'll never work."). Vandal Savage later gave him an "Indeed." Flash also called the War Wheel driver "Col. Klink."

With the "Hitler was mad, but he knew how to treat his generals", I though that was an interesting allusion as well. Reading about Hitler's early campaigns, you can't help wondering what the other leaders were thinking to let him get away with things. Hitler, though, did rise to power through the established channels - not perfectly honestly, but he did respect the forms. Neville Chamberlain and his contemporaries looked at Hitler as a maniac, but a maniac who did things through the proper forms, the kind of maniac they thought they'd seen before. Stalin, on the other hand, represented the downfall of the old order, and they wanted (in part) Hitler to serve as a buffer, because they were initially more nervous about Stalin.

As to why the time travel was in the Savageverse, well, Savage is a caveman, but he ain't dumb. He knows that he sent the laptop back in time. His message probably included how and when. The Savage that took over the world in 1944 knows that if he doesn't send that laptop when he gets to the modern day, he won't win WWII, so he probably had it circled in red on his day planner. ("Aug. 23. Send laptop back to past self. Execute captured resistance leaders. Massage at 2 PM.") If he doesn't, he runs into the Skynet version of the grandfather paradox. Skynet sends Terminator to kill Sarah Conner. John Conner is never born, and does not lead the human resistance. Skynet therefore has no reason to send back Terminator. John Conner is born, and leads resistance against Skynet. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Looking back, I also think that this was a turning point for Flash. He becomes much more balanced and heroic from here on, as you see him facing down Wonder Woman bent on revenge on Toyman, Superman bent on revenge on Cadmus, reminding Green Arrow of why they're heroes, and just generally stepping up (Not so much the power (although taking down Luthor/Brainiac is one of the single coolest scenes in the DCAU), as the sense of morality behind it).. The scenes with Hawkgirl represented him really stepping outside himself and realizing how important this job is. Think about after that, when he's evacuating the German factory workers. He'd never really looked that serious up to this point, and Superman even acknowledged that Flash was the one who's focused on saving lives, not just destroying the German ability to make war.

Of course, one odd thing that I noticed was that Stewart never said anything to Easy Company about being called 'soldier'. He wasn't a soldier. He was a Marine. The USMC as a group is fairly emphatic about that.

Chris

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Green Lanterns are to intergalactic space flight what ducks are to water. If Superman or WW or any of the rest of the league could fly from star system to star system then I'm sure we'd see it more often, but we never do, not even in comics. Even Superman usually uses a ship for space travel outside our solar system. Really I'm assuming that in terms of faster-than-light travel and intergalactic navigation GL has the rest of the league completely beat. I very much doubt that Supes could come close to matching GL's velocity in open space, even if he was wearing a mask and had radio contact with the Javelin cockpit to guide him.

Also, no acknowledgement for WW's "Great Hera!" when the watchtower disappears? I'm surprised you both missed it, especially since you talk about how she didn't say it in this episode.

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Really I'm assuming that in terms of faster-than-light travel and intergalactic navigation GL has the rest of the league completely beat. I very much doubt that Supes could come close to matching GL's velocity in open space, even if he was wearing a mask and had radio contact with the Javelin cockpit to guide him.

Yeah, in the comics, GLs can go faster than light while in space; Superman can't.

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