Regrading requests?


slothian
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Much like WFP do once they come to an end of a DCAU series, Adham and I will be regrading upto 3 Bond films that we may have over/undergraded over the last couple of years. Whilst I'm pretty happy with how my scores look at the moment (and I'm sure Adham is the same), I'm open to hearing what you guys think we should reappraise. Before I even post the tables as they currently stand, A View To A Kill is already going to be one of my three thanks to the continual reminders from my colleagues at BITD Laboratories! The regrading will take place during the forthcoming Episode 23.

Dr No - Ian: 8.5, Adham: 7

From Russia With Love - Ian: 7, Adham: 8

Goldfinger - Ian: 8, Adham: 6

Thunderball - Ian: 7, Adham: 9

You Only Live Twice - Ian: 8, Adham: 7

On Her Majesty's Secret Service - Ian: 9, Adham: 8.5

Diamonds Are Forever - Ian: 4, Adham: 4

Live And Let Die - Ian: 8, Adham: 7

The Man With The Golden Gun - Ian: 3, Adham: 8

The Spy Who Loved Me - Ian: 8, Adham: 7

Moonraker - Ian: 2, Adham: 2

For Your Eyes Only - Ian: 7.5, Adham: 7.5

Octopussy - Ian: 6, Adham: 8

A View To A Kill - Ian: 5, Adham: 5

The Living Daylights - Ian: 7.5, Adham: 8

Licensed To Kill - Ian: 8.5, Adham: 9

Goldeneye - Ian: 10, Adham: 6.5

Tomorrow Never Dies - Ian: 7, Adham: 7

The World Is Not Enough - Ian: 6, Adham: 8

Die Another Day - Ian: 1, Adham: 1

Casino Royale - Ian: 8.5, Adham: 5

Quantum Of Solace - Ian: 7, Adham: 5.5

Whilst all requests will be gratefully received, Adham & I reserve the right not to choose the top 3 picks recommended for us. Many thanks!

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I find it annoying that there is only one 10 on the entire film series. Plus it's the worst Brosnan one!

Can there be suggestion to lower scores? I'm sorry, I hated this movie.

ok what crack pipe are you smoking? GoldenEye was Awesome.

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I find it annoying that there is only one 10 on the entire film series. Plus it's the worst Brosnan one!

Can there be suggestion to lower scores? I'm sorry, I hated this movie.

Scores can be raised or lowered, so there's a possibility Goldeneye might be included. That being said, there is no way in hell that Goldeneye is worse than Die Another Day and I'm quite comfortable with it being above the other two films he did.

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Ian, come on, give A View To A Kill a break, just because others hate on it doesn't make it bad, I really like it and Moore's age doesn't really phase me at all, it's just a joke. You even said that you quite like it, and it was might've been the first one you saw.

I suggest... Goldfinger, Casino Royale and TMWTGG for Adham. Octopussy, Thunderball and The Living Daylights for Ian.

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Ian, come on, give A View To A Kill a break, just because others hate on it doesn't make it bad, I really like it and Moore's age doesn't really phase me at all, it's just a joke. You even said that you quite like it, and it was might've been the first one you saw.

I suggest... Goldfinger, Casino Royale and TMWTGG for Adham. Octopussy, Thunderball and The Living Daylights for Ian.

If you listen to WFP (which I heartily endorse, especially the recap episodes :* ), when Mike & James come to regrade certain episodes, sometimes they rewatch episodes and then leave the grade the same. As of this moment, I'm not going to regrade AVTAK simply because messrs. Deja & Ferguson (and some emailers) detest it, but a 5/10 indicates the film was perfectly average, which it may or may not be. If it isn't, you needn't worry about it dropping to Moonraker or Die Another Day levels as it simply doesn't get the hate boiling up inside me the way those films do.

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It's been an excellent set of reviews, guys, and I really want to thank both Ian and Adham for being rabid Bond fans while still being keen Bond critics. In the immortal words of one reviewer in particular: good on ya!!

As for revised scores, I can't really disagree with many of the ratings too much; whilst one could wonder how both reviewers can disagree so much on certain scores, I think at least some of it lies in the fact that some films, while being bad in a critical sense, nonetheless have plenty of redeeming features due nostalgia or isolated memorable moments or whatever. Case in point: Man With the Golden Gun, while having numerous technical, story, and character flaws, still has a memorable villain and is associated with fond childhood anecdotes. Conversely, some of the films may well measure up critically, but for various reasons having to do with personal taste for various story elements, or characters, or any number of technical features, they simply don't have as much personal resonance. Tomorrow Never Dies, for example, seems to be the kind of film that is often held up as a quintessential showpiece for Brosnan's Bond, with many crowd-pleasing elements, but for many (including myself) so many of the cliches had by that point reached their nadir and combined to overshadow any superficial pleasure that might have been had from the film. The most accurate evaluation of such examples, however, probably lies more towards the middle of the range, with each controversial feature tending to cancel their opposites out at least somewhat.

With this in mind, I think there a few examples of scores that might unduly reflect either some personal bias or lack of critical attention, and thus deserve further reflection, if only to clarify perspectives. I suspect, given the wildly divergent scores given by both reviewers for The Man with the Golden Gun, Goldeneye, and for both Craig films, that their polarizing nature might well lie in the fact that they each, to a considerable extent, experimented with or altered the typical Bond formula in a way that naturally sets them apart from the rest of the canon (whether for good or ill). Some of the other films, similarly, might have introduced isolated elements that either negatively or positively affected the overall view of the film in a decidedly disproportionate way; I'm thinking here of such instances as the underwater sequences in Thunderball, the extended boat chase in Live and Let Die, or the general lack of typical Bondian formula elements in the Craig films (with each of these instances being something that, while often regarded as negative, can just as easily be considered innovative due to their very nature as experiments with the formula). The battle between maintaining the elements of the Bondian formula which make for its enduring appeal, while at the same time keeping such a long-running franchise fresh and creative, will no doubt continue as long as these films (and their fans) do. The podcast has gone a long way towards redeeming this franchise for me, as well as keeping my opinions on it grounded in some semblance of reality (something nerds like us tend to occasionally loose sight of...occasionally ;-)

Alright, now that all the serious critical crap is taken care of, can I please just point out that, IMNSHO, some of the scores for You Only Live Twice, Live and Let Die, Octopussy, and Tomorrow Never Dies are all ridiculously high, and some scores for For Your Eyes Only, The World is Not Enough, Casino Royale, and Quantum of Solace are absurdly low?! What in the name of Ernst Stavro Blofeld where you thinking? I mean, did Auric Goldfinger perform brain surgery on you with his laser?? Did Hugo Drax spin you around in his centrifuge one too many times??? Did Le Chiffre whack your balls off entirely???? ;-)

All kidding aside, though, I do appreciate your stated reasons for rating each of these as you did, but the nerd in me (or perhaps the Fleming purist) was crying out to finally be heard. I trust you understand the sentiment, even if you don't necessarily agree with it. We're all on the same team here at Universal Exports, and fighting the same nasty supervillains...or something...

Cheers, and here's to the future!

(P.S. I've been wondering for some time whether we're ever going to see that supposed photo of Ian and Adham together in their tuxedos, doing that pose with the pistols like in the show's logo. Not to mention Adham in his beloved safari suit...)

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  • 2 weeks later...

I also think Adham sould grade the Craig films based solely on their merit, as in "IF THEY WEREN'T PART OF THE REBOOT"

Hypothetically, let's say they wanted to make a secondary Bond Franchise showing his rise to glory while still having the series movie forawrd. Like, if Casino Royale came out around the same time as Tomorrow Never Dies. What would Adham say then?

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I also think Adham sould grade the Craig films based solely on their merit, as in "IF THEY WEREN'T PART OF THE REBOOT"

Hypothetically, let's say they wanted to make a secondary Bond Franchise showing his rise to glory while still having the series movie forawrd. Like, if Casino Royale came out around the same time as Tomorrow Never Dies. What would Adham say then?

Very good point, by the way, in episode 22 when you guys were discussing what you would do if you were in charge, the theory came up about re-doing the books as they are, I thought that was interesting, but even if they wer'nt based on books, I think it would be good to see a Bond film set in the fifties but shot now days.

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I also think Adham sould grade the Craig films based solely on their merit, as in "IF THEY WEREN'T PART OF THE REBOOT"

Ditto that. I don't think it's exactly fair to judge a film solely on its base premise. It's like if I were to judge Terminator 2 negatively just because it's not Lord of the Rings.

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I also think Adham sould grade the Craig films based solely on their merit, as in "IF THEY WEREN'T PART OF THE REBOOT"

Ditto that. I don't think it's exactly fair to judge a film solely on its base premise. It's like if I were to judge Terminator 2 negatively just because it's not Lord of the Rings.

Whilst I'm not sure that's the greatest example ever, as you're crossing two different genres let alone films, that is certainly fair. Then again, Adham isn't a fair person. And to be fair to him, the reboot to Adham is like Geoff Johns to Tom, Michael Moore to James, the Saw franchise to Mike etc etc. Everyone's allowed their pet peeves, or I wouldn't have spent 10 minutes decrying the Sgt J.W Pepper character in Live & Let Die, despite havig two other hosts in the room whilst recording.

I perfectly understand the point and will bring it to Adham's attention ahead of our recording this weekend, but all I'm saying is don't get your hopes up.

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Ian, come on, give A View To A Kill a break, just because others hate on it doesn't make it bad, I really like it and Moore's age doesn't really phase me at all, it's just a joke. You even said that you quite like it, and it was might've been the first one you saw.

I agree whole heartedly with you that Moore's age in AVTAK is a joke. But probably not for the same reasons :lol:

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