Episode 83


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Mad Mod voids America's independence ("Revolution"), then Brother Blood uses Cyborg's tech in an effort to destroy the city ("Wavelength"). Beast Boy loses himself to rage and is blamed for an attack on Raven ("The Beast Within"), while Starfire adopts a mutant pet ("Can I Keep Him?"). Raven isn't amused by Mumbo's latest trick ("Bunny Raven... or... How to Make a Titananimal Disappear"), and Brother Blood returns once more to wipe out Cyborg ("Titans East"). [ 1:53:58 || 52.2 MB ]

The above is from: http://www.worldsfinestpodcast.com/episodes/wfp_083.mp3

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Not getting into the continuity thing but I don't really agree that Gotham is so far behind the rest of the DCAU in terms of tech. The villains and Batman are still very advanced, and the city police have these giant blimps among skyscrapers that eclipse anything in the real world. I tend to think of Gotham and Metropolis representing two ideas about how cities would chance going forward from the early days of comics and pulp fiction. Metropolis is the glittering dream citadel, the sort of vision of the future you'd expect from the 1950's post war era, maybe something you'd see at a World's Fair entitled "The City of Tomorrow!". Gotham on the other hand is the dark side of that, a city where the 1930's criminal attitudes have taken over, so the architecture, vehicles and clothes are more of a reflection of that era. If you think about it in terms of earth-bound tech there's not much difference between the two, its just the style they embody. You're still getting rockets, time-manipulating devices, accidents creating super-powered freaks, etc regardless of which one you're looking at.

I just don't buy that all the spacefaring and alien contact dealies happened prior to Batman or Superman. There's just no way it fits.

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I hadn't really thought about the rape aspect of Adonis in The Beast Within, but he definitely seemed to be after her. I do have to point out, though, that it was Beast Boy who took her into the sewers, as when the Titans finally take down the thing that had Raven, it transforms into a very disoriented Beast Boy. It's likely that he did this to keep her away from Adonis, since leaving her at the Tower might not have been considered safe in his somewhat primtive mind.

Either way, it was awesome to see him get a chance to play the hero with her for once.

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Not getting into the continuity thing but I don't really agree that Gotham is so far behind the rest of the DCAU in terms of tech. The villains and Batman are still very advanced, and the city police have these giant blimps among skyscrapers that eclipse anything in the real world. I tend to think of Gotham and Metropolis representing two ideas about how cities would chance going forward from the early days of comics and pulp fiction. Metropolis is the glittering dream citadel, the sort of vision of the future you'd expect from the 1950's post war era, maybe something you'd see at a World's Fair entitled "The City of Tomorrow!". Gotham on the other hand is the dark side of that, a city where the 1930's criminal attitudes have taken over, so the architecture, vehicles and clothes are more of a reflection of that era. If you think about it in terms of earth-bound tech there's not much difference between the two, its just the style they embody. You're still getting rockets, time-manipulating devices, accidents creating super-powered freaks, etc regardless of which one you're looking at.

I just don't buy that all the spacefaring and alien contact dealies happened prior to Batman or Superman. There's just no way it fits.

If Static Shock, with Hoop Squad, can be in continuity, why not Teen Titans?

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Not getting into the continuity thing but I don't really agree that Gotham is so far behind the rest of the DCAU in terms of tech. The villains and Batman are still very advanced, and the city police have these giant blimps among skyscrapers that eclipse anything in the real world. I tend to think of Gotham and Metropolis representing two ideas about how cities would chance going forward from the early days of comics and pulp fiction. Metropolis is the glittering dream citadel, the sort of vision of the future you'd expect from the 1950's post war era, maybe something you'd see at a World's Fair entitled "The City of Tomorrow!". Gotham on the other hand is the dark side of that, a city where the 1930's criminal attitudes have taken over, so the architecture, vehicles and clothes are more of a reflection of that era. If you think about it in terms of earth-bound tech there's not much difference between the two, its just the style they embody. You're still getting rockets, time-manipulating devices, accidents creating super-powered freaks, etc regardless of which one you're looking at.

I just don't buy that all the spacefaring and alien contact dealies happened prior to Batman or Superman. There's just no way it fits.

If Static Shock, with Hoop Squad, can be in continuity, why not Teen Titans?

uuugggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... (for reminding us of that THING, not your argument)

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Not getting into the continuity thing but I don't really agree that Gotham is so far behind the rest of the DCAU in terms of tech. The villains and Batman are still very advanced, and the city police have these giant blimps among skyscrapers that eclipse anything in the real world. I tend to think of Gotham and Metropolis representing two ideas about how cities would chance going forward from the early days of comics and pulp fiction. Metropolis is the glittering dream citadel, the sort of vision of the future you'd expect from the 1950's post war era, maybe something you'd see at a World's Fair entitled "The City of Tomorrow!". Gotham on the other hand is the dark side of that, a city where the 1930's criminal attitudes have taken over, so the architecture, vehicles and clothes are more of a reflection of that era. If you think about it in terms of earth-bound tech there's not much difference between the two, its just the style they embody. You're still getting rockets, time-manipulating devices, accidents creating super-powered freaks, etc regardless of which one you're looking at.

I just don't buy that all the spacefaring and alien contact dealies happened prior to Batman or Superman. There's just no way it fits.

If Static Shock, with Hoop Squad, can be in continuity, why not Teen Titans?

uuugggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... (for reminding us of that THING, not your argument)

Sorry, man. I didn't mean to traumatize you.

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Not getting into the continuity thing but I don't really agree that Gotham is so far behind the rest of the DCAU in terms of tech. The villains and Batman are still very advanced, and the city police have these giant blimps among skyscrapers that eclipse anything in the real world. I tend to think of Gotham and Metropolis representing two ideas about how cities would chance going forward from the early days of comics and pulp fiction. Metropolis is the glittering dream citadel, the sort of vision of the future you'd expect from the 1950's post war era, maybe something you'd see at a World's Fair entitled "The City of Tomorrow!". Gotham on the other hand is the dark side of that, a city where the 1930's criminal attitudes have taken over, so the architecture, vehicles and clothes are more of a reflection of that era. If you think about it in terms of earth-bound tech there's not much difference between the two, its just the style they embody. You're still getting rockets, time-manipulating devices, accidents creating super-powered freaks, etc regardless of which one you're looking at.

I just don't buy that all the spacefaring and alien contact dealies happened prior to Batman or Superman. There's just no way it fits.

Hell, we don't know how long John Stewart has been Green Lantern; it's possible he got his ring and had his first missions before Batman and Superman got started.

Also, given Dick's age in Teen Titans, I think it more likely that it was around the same time as BTAS then before it, with most of the episodes without Robin predating or running concurrently with Teen Titans (production order isn't the best measure of continuity for that show) and those with the eighteen-to-twenty year old Robin set after Teen Titans. The sixteen or seventeen-year old Robin of Teen Titans I think was the same as in BTAS and on summer vacation/training in Jump City with the Titans while Batman was on his own dealing with some baddie (there's never snow in Jump City, leading me to believe that every episode of Teen Titans is in or around the summer).

That's my two cents, spend them as you will.

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I do find it interesting that no one is overly surprised by Hawkgirl's presence in Secret Origins. They're more confused by Wonder Woman than an alien showing up. This tells me that the idea of aliens coming to Earth is a given now.

It's implied that they've met Hawkgirl before. That's the only way it'd make sense, because if we'd seen her origin story, we'd know she was a spy.

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I do find it interesting that no one is overly surprised by Hawkgirl's presence in Secret Origins. They're more confused by Wonder Woman than an alien showing up. This tells me that the idea of aliens coming to Earth is a given now.

It's implied that they've met Hawkgirl before. That's the only way it'd make sense, because if we'd seen her origin story, we'd know she was a spy.

sorry to be rude, but :ot:

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I do find it interesting that no one is overly surprised by Hawkgirl's presence in Secret Origins. They're more confused by Wonder Woman than an alien showing up. This tells me that the idea of aliens coming to Earth is a given now.

It's implied that they've met Hawkgirl before. That's the only way it'd make sense, because if we'd seen her origin story, we'd know she was a spy.

sorry to be rude, but :ot:

Not so. It goes back to the entire time frame thing. If humanity is used to Starfire and other weird aliens over in San Fransisco, then Hawkgirl wouldn't phase them.

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Hmm, I guess I should have articulated what I was saying a little bit better. My point was that since few people were surprised to see Hawkgirl show up in Secret Origins in the Justice League, there's no telling how much exposure to aliens the Earth has seen.

I fully accept Teen Titans as in continuity, since the only real obstical to that making sense is the disparity between it and the way Gotham looks in BTAS. However, BTAS has a great disparity with Gotham Nights, and every other DCAU series. I also think that viewing BTAS and Gotham Nights with Teen Titans being in the background gives added character to the Dick Grayson Robin and later Nightwing. His experience with Slade gives him reason to have doubts with Batman's difficulty in avoiding the lines he's always in danger of crossing.

Ultimately, it doesn't really take away from the DCAU to accept Teen Titans in its continuity. Conversely, it adds layers to the universe as a whole when taken in.

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What about the fact that Dick Grayson is a Kung Fu master with a cape ten times stronger than steel in Teen Titans, but goes back to being the "aw, shucks" sidekick in BTAS?

What about when he's not the "aw, shucks" sidekick when he's Nightwing? Grayson's always drifted between bing the sidekick and his own man, and they do take very different forms. That doesn't make Teen Titans not in continuity. Neither does his outfit, which we get no details of from Batman. Again, you can't compare the technology difference between Teen Titans as a judgement of its continuity. If you do that, then you also have to judge Gotham Nights, Superman, and Static Shock, because they are all way ahead of their level.

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For me its all about animation style. Simple as that, all the rest are done in an evolving but clearly related style, Teen Titans is completely different. Aside from all the obvious issues that trying to fit it in creates, its just so clear that it was never meant to fit. Every show in the DCAU has a crossover with another, the elaborate continuity ensures that we know this is all part of a coherent universe. Teen Titans doesn't cross over because it wouldn't fit. The art style wouldn't mesh, the characters wouldn't work in that setting, its just a completely different deal.

Frankly I tend to think anyone who say it is in and that it does fit is just being a little too obsessed with fantasy-booking the show or they're just straight up flaming rational people such as myself. ^_^

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Even if you ignore the technology, there's just too many things that throw the DCAU off entirely.

So if Starfire was already on Earth years before Superman, why did Lois Lane seem somewhat unbelieving when Superman told her of his alien origins?

If the Titans flew through space and went all the way to Tamaran and back at least once, why was it such a big deal when Superman was finally able to retrofit his ship to go into space?

If Robin was an insane-level martial artist, capable of defeating multiple superhumans in hand-to-hand combat, why did he get beaten so easily (repeatedly) in BTAS?

And like Stavros said, WHY WAS THERE NO CROSSOVER?

I mean, in EVERY DCAU show, there are very, very clear references to the DCAU as a whole. Right from the beginning of Superman, you get a reference to Batman ("that nut in Gotham City") as well as multiple crossovers with TNBA. Batman Beyond is basically BTAS 40 years in the future, complete with countless direct continuations of storylines from the DCAU.

Justice League brought in dozens of stories and characters from BTAS, STAS, and Batman Beyond.

Static Shock had a bunch of crossovers and direct references.

So if Teen Titans was intended to be in the DCAU, why are there no firm, direct ties to continuity?

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For me its all about animation style. Simple as that, all the rest are done in an evolving but clearly related style, Teen Titans is completely different. Aside from all the obvious issues that trying to fit it in creates, its just so clear that it was never meant to fit. Every show in the DCAU has a crossover with another, the elaborate continuity ensures that we know this is all part of a coherent universe. Teen Titans doesn't cross over because it wouldn't fit. The art style wouldn't mesh, the characters wouldn't work in that setting, its just a completely different deal.

Frankly I tend to think anyone who say it is in and that it does fit is just being a little too obsessed with fantasy-booking the show or they're just straight up flaming rational people such as myself. ^_^

Speedy appears in both Teen Titans and JLU voiced by the same person. Yes, his design is slightly different but that's because he'd be older in JLU and besides, Batman and Superman's designs were changed when they crossed over into Static, which IS in continuity.

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Speedy appears in both Teen Titans and JLU voiced by the same person. Yes, his design is slightly different but that's because he'd be older in JLU and besides, Batman and Superman's designs were changed when they crossed over into Static, which IS in continuity.

Counts for nothing in my book. By that logic Arkham Asylum is in the same continuity, since Batman, Joker and Harley are all voiced by BTAS actors. Oh, and because Kevin Conroy did the voice of Batman in Gotham Knight and the Superman/batman films that must fit in. Oh and Mark Hammill reprised his role from the live action Flash as The Trickster in JLU, so that's in too. They've all as much claim to being in the DCAU universe as Teen Titans in my mind.

Plus the animation shift from Justice League to Static was no more or less than those major character designs shifted to go between their own shows, from BTAS to JLU is a big shift in how Batman was drawn. Teen Titans isn't anywhere near that style.

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Even if you ignore the technology, there's just too many things that throw the DCAU off entirely.

So if Starfire was already on Earth years before Superman, why did Lois Lane seem somewhat unbelieving when Superman told her of his alien origins?

If the Titans flew through space and went all the way to Tamaran and back at least once, why was it such a big deal when Superman was finally able to retrofit his ship to go into space?

If Robin was an insane-level martial artist, capable of defeating multiple superhumans in hand-to-hand combat, why did he get beaten so easily (repeatedly) in BTAS?

And like Stavros said, WHY WAS THERE NO CROSSOVER?

I mean, in EVERY DCAU show, there are very, very clear references to the DCAU as a whole. Right from the beginning of Superman, you get a reference to Batman ("that nut in Gotham City") as well as multiple crossovers with TNBA. Batman Beyond is basically BTAS 40 years in the future, complete with countless direct continuations of storylines from the DCAU.

Justice League brought in dozens of stories and characters from BTAS, STAS, and Batman Beyond.

Static Shock had a bunch of crossovers and direct references.

So if Teen Titans was intended to be in the DCAU, why are there no firm, direct ties to continuity?

Two words: Patriot Act.

An older Speedy appears voiced by the same actor as in Teen Titans. His animation design is different from that of Teen Titans, but so were those of Batman and Superman when they appear in Static. :headbonk:

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