Episode 476


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Thanks to the events of Flashpoint, the post-Crisis DC Universe is dead. From its ashes rises the DCnU: a younger, forever-changed world! To herald in this momentous moment, DC Comics launched Justice League, the first in a wave of 52 brand new comic books. What did Mike think about Flashpoint #1-5 and Justice League #1, and what does he have to say about the risk DC is taking? There's only one way to find out! [ 51:10 || 25.1 MB ]

The above is from: http://www.earth-2.net/theshow/episodes/e2ts_476.mp3

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Sorry Mike, I needed to pause the show to ask this question from a writing perspective:

How the hell does Wally going back in time to save Barry's mother make any sense?

He's Iris's niece, which means he would have never met Barry's mother, meaning he would not know about her. Would bringing her back be a nice gift to his uncle? Yes, it would be. But it's not something you'd fuck with time to do, and you would come out saying "It makes no fucking sense" if they did that. I completely disagree on Wally doing that, it just makes no logical sense to me.

I do agree that Wally being the person causing the Flashpoint, and being the central character would work better, because he has a personality. But the problem is, DC, probably rightfully for the moment, feels like they need to put a fresh/old coat of paint on the characters to make them interesting again. Kyle Rayner had to take a back seat when Hal Jordan came back from exile as a Green Lantern, and that's been a top selling book for the past five years, along with two loved, and popular events in SCW, and BN.

If you wanted Wally to be the hero of Flashpoint, and also the cause of it, here's what I'd do:

Have Wally do what Marv Wolfman always says, have him pull Barry from the speed force just as he's doing his final run in COIE. Wally brings back his mentor, as Prof Zoom has returned somehow "Wouldn't you like to know...fake Flash?" and causes Wally to question himself, and force himself to go and ask Barry for advice on how to be a now super powered Zoom, who came back during Blackest Night, Wally accidentally takes Barry away from the COIE moment, and causes a clusterfuck throughout the Universe, bringing Barry back, but ultimately causing the Flashpoint.

During Flashpoint Wally has to go into the past and stop himself from saving Barry, and does the crash and causes a chain reaction in the Universe that causes DCnU to happen, along with the death of Barry Allen once again, who died a hero. And now Wally has to live with the image of his mentors dying before his eyes, and it's all his fault.

That does sound complicated and doesn't make much sense I know, but Wally has screwed with the past because of a reverse Flash before during Rogue War, where Linda was able to have his kids because of a fix in the time stream, so Wally wanted to help a loved one again, kind of makes sense.

The idea that Wally would fuck up history just so's his uncle can see his mother again, is nice, but it doesn't make any sense. Would he go back in time to save his mentor? Yes he would. Would he go back in time to save someone he's had no actual contact with, and therefore unlucky to find the exact point of her death and therefore suffer the chance of being lost in time and fuck up the Universe? Sorry, Mike, but I call bullshit.

Sorry that's really long, and the grammar probably is wrong, it's like 1AM here, and I was listening and just felt the need to comment on your point.

Edit: Just finished the episode. Geoff Johns may be channelling Jeph Loeb for Justice League, but Mike, here's the thing, Jeph Loeb sells books. What I mean by that is, I don't see Justice Leagues numbers going out of the top ten sales until either Geoff Johns gets sick of writing the book, or they have to do an unsolicited fill in, or Jim Lee just suddenly leaves the book.

It may have been an average at best comic, but new readers will be taken in by the action heavy nature of the issue, and it won't be a dense read. Who wants to show a new comic reader X-Men by Chris Claremont, which may be great, but is supposedly word heavy, when you can show them this, a light read, an expensive light read, but still, it's not heavy on the history, so they can still enjoy it and not feel like they have to know years of history to give the story a chance to go.

Oh, and your Geoff Johns impression was great.

Again just my opinion. Blame my insomnia for my very long response to this episode :P

Edited by SuaveStar
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When I was working on 52, I half-jokingly asked Geoff Johns what it was with him and decapitations. If you’ve read his work, you’ll know what I’m talking about. Black Adam, in particular, had a penchant for removing the top, so to speak. His response was that he’d grown up playing Mortal Kombat. Fatalities were common, as he put it; a decapitation was de rigueur. Me, I was in college when Narc came out. Late formative years, and I still remember being taken aback the first time I watched the animated pitbulls tearing me apart on the screen.

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Greg Rucka"]

When I was working on 52, I half-jokingly asked Geoff Johns what it was with him and decapitations. If you’ve read his work, you’ll know what I’m talking about. Black Adam, in particular, had a penchant for removing the top, so to speak. His response was that he’d grown up playing Mortal Kombat. Fatalities were common, as he put it; a decapitation was de rigueur. Me, I was in college when Narc came out. Late formative years, and I still remember being taken aback the first time I watched the animated pitbulls tearing me apart on the screen.

That story about Mortal Kombat cannot be true. I have never once seen in a Geoff Johns story anyone doing a babality or offering friendship.

Friendship....friendship, again?

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  • 2 weeks later...
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I gotta say, when I heard your idea that Wally should have been the star of Flashpoint, and that the event should have been the return of Barry and the 'passing back' of the torch, I was, like, 'Oh, yes.'

Between Barry's return and Flashpoint, Wally spent a lot of time with nothing to do. And Barry's return was in the (to me) incomprehensible Final Crisis, with the explanation of 'He ran so fast before he died that he's alive now'. Or something. If Flashpoint had been the transition, both of these could have been avoided.

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