Episode 124


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Matt Smith's first season as The Doctor winds down as he, Amy, River, and a returned Rory must save all of creation from an unknown force ("The Pandorica Opens" / "The Big Bang"). You decide: is it Bill & Ted logic, Bugs Bunny logic, or both? [ 1:09:46 || 33.8 MB ]

To listen, click here: http://www.earth-2.net/podcasts/biggerontheinside/episodes/bigger_124.mp3

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I thought about that too, but forgot to mention it.

I'm guessing, either Steven Moffat hadn't quite worked out who River was yet. (There, he used her when he shouldn't have.) Or, because she's Time Lord, River is able to exist in (what would be for her) an alternate reality.

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If the Doctor never existed, Earth would have blown up a long time ago. So clearly it's not a clear-cut alternate reality-type deal like in "Turn Left."

Or it's a paradox. River was able to exist because the Doctor did, indeed, come back. It's just like the Doctor himself looping through time earlier in the story.

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But he was bouncing back and forth in time early on in the episode because of Rivers Time wrist gadget thing and only before he sealed up the cracks in the universe. After he was gone Amy's universe was her quiet little village life having never met the doctor. River should not be there.

Except that the Doctor did come back, thus River was able to exist. The fact that River caused it means that it's a causality loop of sorts, but that's exactly the kind of thing that the Doctor was doing earlier with his own time loops. The logic works itself out.

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But he was bouncing back and forth in time early on in the episode because of Rivers Time wrist gadget thing and only before he sealed up the cracks in the universe. After he was gone Amy's universe was her quiet little village life having never met the doctor. River should not be there.

Except that the Doctor did come back, thus River was able to exist. The fact that River caused it means that it's a causality loop of sorts, but that's exactly the kind of thing that the Doctor was doing earlier with his own time loops. The logic works itself out.

Hmmm. I still find it a little weak.

In my mind The Doctor sealed the cracks erasing him from Amy's existence. Only when she remembered him, did he and his world come back. No one remembered River for her to still be around. Not until the Doctor and the Tardis appeared did some of his world start to find its way back. Look at how Rory suddenly realises "oh yeah the Doctor, how did we forget him.

Having said all that I forgive all of it just to have that something borrowed, something blue speech. A truly inspired idea.

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  • 4 weeks later...

True; and the Doctor exists as an idea (even when he's "officially dead" later on, too). Maybe there is some link with Time Lords "in many ways, having the same mind" as per the Master/Doctor link, and the TL's on Gallifrey having a link even through their time-bubble to The Master (and he to the Doctor, and the Doctor to River, etc, not to mention Romana in E-Space perhaps!) so it's impossible to erase every vestige of them from the universe. There are even the communications-cubes in House's blister-universe, which operate telepathically. So if Amy reboots the entire universe from an idea/memory, maybe River was the memory of a memory (being her daughter, perhaps a fairly strong subconscious one)... or something. A lot less to animate than a universe, anyway.

If the ruddy Daleks can survive annihilation in Time Wars over and over again then the Doctor deserves to :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Huh. Whilst just getting around to this episode I had a thought. The Romans are made up from Amy's memories/experiences right? Hence Rory being one of them. So this Rory is actually the version that Amy knew and not Rory in his own right, more of an echo. So him choosing to stay by her side for a thousand years isn't the action of Rory, it's Amy's ego believing that he would do that for her! So she believed he was weak enough to fail and let her die, but devoted enough to stay by her side.

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That's a good point, although in the episode they use the same logic. The Doctor tells Amy that just as she pulled Rory out of nowhere, she can do the same for her parents. I think the logic is that Auton-Rory was made because Amy (or Amy's psychic memories left in her bedroom that the Autons scanned) inadvertently pulled him out. So he's both an Auton creation and the real Rory from the crack.

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