A.Logan Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 This thread was inspired by DJ's comment in the Catwoman thread. Frankly, I agree. Making him a hero takes away from his edge. He's saving people now? Bullshit. I want Venom to be this menacing villain. One you just know will get the drop on Spidey one of these days. How do the rest of you feel about this? Was making Venom a hero a good thing or a bad thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 Oddly enough, I recently found myself thinking about this very subject, and I have to say it was a major mistake on Marvel's part because it watered him down. But that was the trend at the time (RE: Sabertooth). While some villains can successfully make the switch to hero/antihero (RE: Emma Frost), others cannot. However, it has nothing to do with the character and more to do with how it was handled. Emma's transition was handled well, and her loyalties continue to be questioned. Whereas Venom's protecting of the "innocents" seemed to come out of left field and didn't quite fit the character. At least with Emma one must wonder if she's in it for herself, if she's biding her time, which adds mystique (pardon) to the character. But, despite his past, we were fully expected to buy Venom as the next great antihero, without ever questioning which side he was really on. Things might have worked out better for Venom if he had become a reluctant hero who we didn't know if we could trust -- not even in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.Logan Posted July 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 Oddly enough, I recently found myself thinking about this very subject, and I have to say it was a major mistake on Marvel's part because it watered him down. But that was the trend at the time (RE: Sabertooth). While some villains can successfully make the switch to hero/antihero (RE: Emma Frost), others cannot. However, it has nothing to do with the character and more to do with how it was handled. Emma's transition was handled well, and her loyalties continue to be questioned. Whereas Venom's protecting of the "innocents" seemed to come out of left field and didn't quite fit the character. At least with Emma one must wonder if she's in it for herself, if she's biding her time, which adds mystique (pardon) to the character. But, despite his past, we were fully expected to buy Venom as the next great antihero, without ever questioning which side he was really on. Things might have worked out better for Venom if he had become a reluctant hero who we didn't know if we could trust -- not even in the end. I was hoping someone brought Emma Frost up. I never got the feeling that she could be trusted as a heroine. A perfect example of what to do with a villain turned hero. As far as Sabertooth goes, let me just say . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 I was hoping someone brought Emma Frost up. I never got the feeling that she could be trusted as a heroine. A perfect example of what to do with a villain turned hero. As far as Sabertooth goes, let me just say . At least they had enough sense to turn 'Tooth back. Getting back to Emma, however, I really like the tension between her and teammate Kitty Pryde. It serves to remind us that 01. she used to oppose her current comrades, and 02. not all heroes (especially those whose loyalties are called into question) trust one another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.Logan Posted July 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 I was hoping someone brought Emma Frost up. I never got the feeling that she could be trusted as a heroine. A perfect example of what to do with a villain turned hero. As far as Sabertooth goes, let me just say . At least they had enough sense to turn 'Tooth back. Getting back to Emma, however, I really like the tension between her and teammate Kitty Pryde. It serves to remind us that 01. she used to oppose her current comrades, and 02. not all heroes (especially those whose loyalties are called into question) trust one another. Agreed, well stated. I don't know if you're familar with the story, but in an anthology of Spidey stories one focuses on Venom's return to New York. He's chasing someone who claims to be an innocent and everyone buys it. Spidey fights him, the police hurt him pretty bad and it turns out the guy is really a criminal in the end. Great way to have Venom still be vicious, he was trying to kill the subject throughout the story, but still be a hero of sorts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 Agreed, well stated. I don't know if you're familar with the story, but in an anthology of Spidey stories one focuses on Venom's return to New York. He's chasing someone who claims to be an innocent and everyone buys it. Spidey fights him, the police hurt him pretty bad and it turns out the guy is really a criminal in the end. Great way to have Venom still be vicious, he was trying to kill the subject throughout the story, but still be a hero of sorts. I actually wasn't familiar with that story. Where can I pick it up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.Logan Posted July 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 Agreed, well stated. I don't know if you're familar with the story, but in an anthology of Spidey stories one focuses on Venom's return to New York. He's chasing someone who claims to be an innocent and everyone buys it. Spidey fights him, the police hurt him pretty bad and it turns out the guy is really a criminal in the end. Great way to have Venom still be vicious, he was trying to kill the subject throughout the story, but still be a hero of sorts. I actually wasn't familiar with that story. Where can I pick it up? It's in a book of short stories set in the Spider-Man universe. I don't remember what it's called, but I'll get it out of storage tomorrow. I could transcribe the story, if that's okay, as I'm fairly sure they don't sell this anymore. I've had it since the third grade. It's huge, I remember looking at the stories (I was always ahead when it came to reading) and just wishing that they were actual comics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 It's in a book of short stories set in the Spider-Man universe. I don't remember what it's called, but I'll get it out of storage tomorrow. I could transcribe the story, if that's okay, as I'm fairly sure they don't sell this anymore. I've had it since the third grade. It's huge, I remember looking at the stories (I was always ahead when it came to reading) and just wishing that they were actual comics. Sounds good to me, but only if you want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.Logan Posted July 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 I'll start today. Should be done tonight. EDIT: Oh god, nevermind. The story is about 45 pages long. It would take me a week. The story isn't that good, to spend a week transcribing. Sorry about that everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 EDIT: Oh god, nevermind. The story is about 45 pages long. It would take me a week. The story isn't that good, to spend a week transcribing. Sorry about that everyone. Don't worry about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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