Saw II review

[James D.]

Because of what this is, I announce that there are...

MASSIVE SPOILERS BELOW!!! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

Everyone else in the picture either yells, cries or smashes things because that's what the script says to do, but it never digs into who these people are. Sure, they're expendable, but we're never given a reason to actually care about them. So there's no reason to mourn their deaths.

I disagree slightly here. The only person whose death we really shouldn't mourn was Xavier's. (And maybe Laura's because I don't think we ever got an explanation as to why she was even there.) Obviously, we don't mourn Xavier because he was a dirty, selfish asshole who even went so far as to throw Amanda into the syringe pit and tried to slash everyone else just for their rainbow-colored safe combination numbers. I would even feel bad for Obi, the guy who was burned alive, because unlike Xavier, he actually had the balls to perform his task himself.

Everyone that is in there, is there for two reasons--because of their link to Eric and because of their past sins. They are there to serve as reminders to Eric of his hideously unethical practices while being a cop. Like Amanda said to all of them, Jigsaw wants them to live, but they need to earn their way out because they committed sins--i.e., drug dealing, drug abusing, defrauding people, etc. But they were wrongly arrested and imprisoned, and they serve as mental torture on Eric, who is the main target of Jigsaw in the first place. So, it's basically a mobius strip of psychological war.

Jigsaw asks Detective Mason why, despite their turbulent relationship, he wants to see his son alive again. Mason's response: "Because he's my son." This answer would fly if we were previously shown that the father-son relationship had some depth. But we're not. In fact, the only time we see them together (before Daniel's kidnapping) is when Eric picks the boy up from the police station. Afterwards, they bark about their shattered past and feverishly part ways. Later, when Eric attempts to call his son, there's a hint of sadness / regret in the father's eyes, but the scene is horribly contrived. (Makes phone call, gets voicemail, hangs up, phone instantly rings back, thinks it's his loved one... it's not, frown sets in.)

Clichéd? Of course. But I think it worked alright. From the minute Eric learned John captured his son onward, you could see the tension building until finally he just mindlessly started trashing the deathtrap blueprints and beating the hell out of Jigsaw. What I'm saying is, I think they did an at least adequate job showing that Eric desperately wanted to see his son alive again. Really, if anything, I think it relied too much on the assumed "deep down" love between father and son. To an extent, that kind of thought process works, but just not on its own. But it wasn't completely on its own because, like I said, Eric grew progressively more stressed out and infuriated in the warehouse and those two elements together worked somewhat...at least in my opinion. However...

So not only are we given zero reasons to worry about those around Daniel — both those that would save and kill him — but Daniel himself proves to be nothing more than a prop for the director and killer to drop into one outlandish situation after the next. Eric also is a toy for Bousman and Jigsaw to manipulate at their whim, but what an uninspired toy he is: the down on his luck, divorced detective with a penchant for cigarettes. Wasn't that Danny Glover's character in Saw?

...I agree with this. I was disappointed in how Eric was basically the same as Danny Glover. Like I said above, I think the intensity for the Eric character was there, but with no distinguishing characteristics other than the kidnapped son, it was pretty much just a rehash. So, yeah. Agreed.

That leaves us with Amanda. In the first Saw she claimed Jigsaw saved her from a world of painful addiction, so how did she wind up back in one of his Goldbergian traps? In her own words: "I wasn't nice to myself." [insert wrist-slicing scene here] Oooh! Such depth. Sorry if I'm being snarky, but for a movie that bashes its viewers over the head with one flashback after another, you'd think it could take the time to give us more than that. Like maybe, I don't know, how she went from "saved" to cutting her veins open. However, she, like everyone else in the house, keeps her secrets held tightly against her breast. (Of course, she has her reasons. All of which are revealed in the end.)

You know what the first thought that came to mind was when I saw the wrist-slashing? "Down the road, not across the street, you dumb bitch." But, here is what I think happened timeline-wise and maybe this can explain the wackiness:

-Amanda is a junkie.

-Amanda is captured by Jigsaw and barely escapes death via the "reverse bear trap".

-She is scared straight for a while, and goes back to hurting herself.

-Jigsaw sees this and thus, sees a weakness in her that he can manipulate to make her a successor.

-Amanda, after being trained to use all of the implements of death, is placed in the house with the others purely as a decoy.

-In the room from the original Saw, Amanda figures Xavier won't kill her because only she can tell him his combination number, but she underestimated how far he'd go to get the antidote. (i.e., his slicing a chunk of his skin off to get it).

-She knows she screwed up, but Daniel kills Xavier, saving both their lives.

-She saves Daniel's life in return by putting him in the other safe with an oxygen supply. But by doing this, she torments Daniel on purpose by putting him in a dark, enclosed space for who knows how long. Sort of a bittersweet farewell present.

-Amanda officially takes over for John by trapping Eric, who she can never forgive for wrongly putting her in prison, and the Jigsaw legacy continues.

If they do it like ^that, I believe it all makes sense. Furthermore, I assumed that she already had the antidote in her system because we never once see her cough up blood or stumble around weakly like the others. Where did she get the anitdote? Who else? Jigsaw--her mentor-of-sorts. John/Jigsaw figured he would die very soon anyway from the cancer, so it didn't matter that he pissed off Eric the whole movie to the point of being beaten to death. Even while he was being beaten up, he continued to point out Eric's fatal flaws.

This bothers me because Jigsaw tells them that they have a common past that they must uncover if they are to unlock the safe that holds one dose of the antidote. But the group never takes the time to actually discuss this. There is a moment when Jonas almost figures it out, but he's interrupted before the thought can be completed. Here was the perfect opportunity for the filmmakers to dig into these characters and for the characters to show some semblance of life, but it was pissed away for more frights, house-wide chase and "you're not listening to me" moments between Jigsaw and Detective Mason.

Again, I agree with this. They botched a chance to develop the other victims horribly when Jonas was interrupted. It never seemed to pick back up after that.

So, overall, I'd say I go 75% agreeing and 25% disagreeing with your review. It wasn't a good movie overall, but I wouldn't give it a zero. I think I'd give it one *. I like how well developed Amanda was, the intensity from Eric, and the monologues from Jigsaw. Pretty much everything else was a letdown--especially the missed chances at character development. Your review as a whole was excellent. Easy to read, but intelligent enough to make someone think about flaws they might not have otherwise seen during the course of the movie.

[Missy]

Everyone else in the picture either yells, cries or smashes things because that's what the script says to do, but it never digs into who these people are. Sure, they're expendable, but we're never given a reason to actually care about them. So there's no reason to mourn their deaths.

I disagree slightly here. The only person whose death we really shouldn't mourn was Xavier's. (And maybe Laura's because I don't think we ever got an explanation as to why she was even there.) Obviously, we don't mourn Xavier because he was a dirty, selfish asshole who even went so far as to throw Amanda into the syringe pit and tried to slash everyone else just for their rainbow-colored safe combination numbers. I would even feel bad for Obi, the guy who was burned alive, because unlike Xavier, he actually had the balls to perform his task himself.

But Obi was working with Jigsaw. Sure, he had the balls to go into the retort, but that doesn't absolve him of his dubious role. In fact, I was a bit shocked that they were willing to save him knowing what he had done.

I would have bought it if it was made clear that they wanted to get him out solely for the antidote, but they didn't even remember that's why he went in until after he crawled halfway through the broken window.

Everyone that is in there, is there for two reasons--because of their link to Eric and because of their past sins.  They are there to serve as reminders to Eric of his hideously unethical practices while being a cop.  Like Amanda said to all of them, Jigsaw wants them to live, but they need to earn their way out because they committed sins--i.e., drug dealing, drug abusing, defrauding people, etc.  But they were wrongly arrested and imprisoned, and they serve as mental torture on Eric, who is the main target of Jigsaw in the first place.  So, it's basically a mobius strip of psychological war.

In my opinion, Jigsaw couldn't have cared less if anyone (besides Daniel and Amanda) lived / redeemed themselves. They were props in this game with Eric.

Jigsaw asks Detective Mason why, despite their turbulent relationship, he wants to see his son alive again. Mason's response: "Because he's my son." This answer would fly if we were previously shown that the father-son relationship had some depth. But we're not. In fact, the only time we see them together (before Daniel's kidnapping) is when Eric picks the boy up from the police station. Afterwards, they bark about their shattered past and feverishly part ways. Later, when Eric attempts to call his son, there's a hint of sadness / regret in the father's eyes, but the scene is horribly contrived. (Makes phone call, gets voicemail, hangs up, phone instantly rings back, thinks it's his loved one... it's not, frown sets in.)

Clichéd? Of course. But I think it worked alright. From the minute Eric learned John captured his son onward, you could see the tension building until finally he just mindlessly started trashing the deathtrap blueprints and beating the hell out of Jigsaw.

The only reason the tension "built" was because Rigg kept harping on it. Eric started out tough, but quickly realized John had him by the balls. So he sat down and talked with him. And he would have continued to do so (and won the game) if Rigg hadn't pushed him.

I saw nothing in Eric to suggest that he would have reverted to his old "phonebook" ways of beating information out of a suspect. Nothing. Rigg was there to play bad cop against Kerry's good cop, and Eric was stuck in the middle with no real mind of his own.

What I'm saying is, I think they did an at least adequate job showing that Eric desperately wanted to see his son alive again.

When? It just felt too scripted. Too writing-by-numbers.

Really, if anything, I think it relied too much on the assumed "deep down" love between father and son.  To an extent, that kind of thought process works, but just not on its own.

Exactly. As I said in the review:

This answer would fly if we were previously shown that the father-son relationship had some depth.

But it wasn't completely on its own because, like I said, Eric grew progressively more stressed out and infuriated in the warehouse and those two elements together worked somewhat...at least in my opinion.  However...

As I said above, I felt all that came from Rigg.

That leaves us with Amanda. In the first Saw she claimed Jigsaw saved her from a world of painful addiction, so how did she wind up back in one of his Goldbergian traps? In her own words: "I wasn't nice to myself." [insert wrist-slicing scene here] Oooh! Such depth. Sorry if I'm being snarky, but for a movie that bashes its viewers over the head with one flashback after another, you'd think it could take the time to give us more than that. Like maybe, I don't know, how she went from "saved" to cutting her veins open. However, she, like everyone else in the house, keeps her secrets held tightly against her breast. (Of course, she has her reasons. All of which are revealed in the end.)

You know what the first thought that came to mind was when I saw the wrist-slashing? "Down the road, not across the street, you dumb bitch." But, here is what I think happened timeline-wise and maybe this can explain the wackiness:

-Amanda is a junkie.

-Amanda is captured by Jigsaw and barely escapes death via the "reverse bear trap".

-She is scared straight for a while, and goes back to hurting herself.

-Jigsaw sees this and thus, sees a weakness in her that he can manipulate to make her a successor.

-Amanda, after being trained to use all of the implements of death, is placed in the house with the others purely as a decoy.

-In the room from the original Saw, Amanda figures Xavier won't kill her because only she can tell him his combination number, but she underestimated how far he'd go to get the antidote. (i.e., his slicing a chunk of his skin off to get it).

-She knows she screwed up, but Daniel kills Xavier, saving both their lives.

-She saves Daniel's life in return by putting him in the other safe with an oxygen supply. But by doing this, she torments Daniel on purpose by putting him in a dark, enclosed space for who knows how long. Sort of a bittersweet farewell present.

-Amanda officially takes over for John by trapping Eric, who she can never forgive for wrongly putting her in prison, and the Jigsaw legacy continues.

If they do it like ^that, I believe it all makes sense. Furthermore, I assumed that she already had the antidote in her system because we never once see her cough up blood or stumble around weakly like the others. Where did she get the anitdote? Who else? Jigsaw--her mentor-of-sorts. John/Jigsaw figured he would die very soon anyway from the cancer, so it didn't matter that he pissed off Eric the whole movie to the point of being beaten to death. Even while he was being beaten up, he continued to point out Eric's fatal flaws.

Oh, I fully understand Amanda's motivation. In fact, I pegged her as Jigsaw's protégé from the commercials. But I wrote what I wrote for two reasons:

01. Stating her true motivations in a review would have been a major, crucifiable spoiler, and I wanted to avoid that. That's why I said:

(Of course, she has her reasons. All of which are revealed in the end.)

02. It led into what I said (which you've quoted below) about the hostages not working together to unlock the safe, and back to the fact that none of the characters are properly developed. While it's obvious that she was only going to give so much information, a phony backstory could have been constructed (and maybe it was; see below). Amanda could have then told said story while they attempted to figure out the connection they shared.

-She knows she screwed up, but Daniel kills Xavier, saving both their lives.

-She saves Daniel's life in return by putting him in the other safe with an oxygen supply.  But by doing this, she torments Daniel on purpose by putting him in a dark, enclosed space for who knows how long.  Sort of a bittersweet farewell present.

And she didn't save Daniel because she "screwed up"; she saved him because that was the plan all along. All Eric had to do was talk with Jigsaw: to play the game and follow the rules. That had to be Jigsaw's plan from the beginning. If it wasn't, if Daniel was supposed to die, what would have been the point of the game with Eric? Conversely, if Amanda did screw up and saved Daniel as a repayment, why didn't John punish her for altering his grand scheme?

Yes, Xavier's masochistic action did surprise her (and maybe so did Daniel's bravery), but I have no doubt she would have found a way to kill Xavier so as to make sure the game came to its proper conclusion.

This bothers me because Jigsaw tells them that they have a common past that they must uncover if they are to unlock the safe that holds one dose of the antidote. But the group never takes the time to actually discuss this. There is a moment when Jonas almost figures it out, but he's interrupted before the thought can be completed. Here was the perfect opportunity for the filmmakers to dig into these characters and for the characters to show some semblance of life, but it was pissed away for more frights, house-wide chase and "you're not listening to me" moments between Jigsaw and Detective Mason.

Again, I agree with this. They botched a chance to develop the other victims horribly when Jonas was interrupted. It never seemed to pick back up after that.

Yeah, I think Laura attempts to revive the conversation later, but it doesn't go much further than before.

I like how well developed Amanda was

Her development wasn't given; you filled in the blanks. In fact, I disagree with your opinion that Jigsaw exploited her suicidal tendencies. I believe (and now I'm filling in the blanks because this wasn't stated as fact) Jigsaw made it look like she was an attempted suicide (the hospital gown, slit wrists) to go along with her "I wasn't nice to myself" story. After all, he was in the room with her as she made the cuts. That tells me that she's been working with him since the end of the first movie. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if she was working with him throughout the first one.

Your review as a whole was excellent.  Easy to read, but intelligent enough to make someone think about flaws they might not have otherwise seen during the course of the movie.

Thank you.