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When The Enterprise stumbles upon the SS Botany Bay, Khan Noonien Singh and his fellow superhumans are awoken, leading to a battle of wits and fists between Khan and Captain Kirk ("Space Seed"). Then, on the planet of Eminiar VII, Kirk and his entire crew find themselves casualties of a new kind of war ("A Taste of Armageddon"). There's also Bigger on the Inside news, and the guys cheering the awesomeness of Dr. McCoy, Scotty, Uhura, and Ram Man. Please pardon the slight echo of Mike's line. [ 1:41:32 || 49.2 MB ]

To listen, click here: http://www.earth-2.net/podcasts/theedgeofforever/episodes/theedgeofforever_011.mp3

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I don't think we're shutting down the casual sexism count altogether, but we walked into this expecting a certain amount of mansplaining and thinking how adorable it was that people were so backward in their generally harmless treatment of women on this show, but upon watching it sometimes we're hit in the face with how egregious and even harmful some of the sexism and outright misogyny could be. We have to be very, very careful not to disrespect the latter when laughing at the former.

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Oh, of course, and you guys have already done a good job differentiating the two previously, like in "The Enemy Within." I just meant that seeing how much of an improvement there actually is from the 60s show would be interesting to chart.

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I really like the fact that you guys are forced in some episodes to figure out the exact instances of sexism and misogyny. Even if you misjudge something (which IMO so far you haven't), you've certainly presented the listeners with the intent of being open to discuss it further if need be. I 100% agree with putting McGuyver's character as a whole into the sexist count, for all the reasons Dan said. That was ridiculous.

Additionally, I was so happy you went back and discussed the ending of "Space Seed". When I first saw that I said out loud "WHAT THE FUCK?!" There's a worse instance of it in the next season where a guy brutally murders a crewmen in cold blood right in front of Kirk just because he can, and by the end Kirk is laughing with him during the solution to the episode. You get the idea sometimes that the writers fell asleep during the writing and forgot how the episode started out.

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Holy crap! I thought that I was the only one who broke Webstor's backpack grapple. Had no idea that it was a general thing. I feel slightly better about it now.

Enjoyed hearing you guys talking at length about something completely unrelated to the show and then realising that you've probably got to the end of actual episode discussion. That's something that happens on TABHAL pretty much once and episode if not more.

I'm a real sucker for Space Seed. I think Ricardo Mantleban (sp?) Is amazing. While I agree that casting a Latino actor as an Indian is racially insensitive at least they cast someone non Caucasian. It could have easily been a white guy in make up. I love Scotty in the original series and I'm happy that you guys are picking up on that. I find his reduction to comedy relief in the Abrams films (particularly Into Darkness) so annoying because TOS Scotty is so badass.

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I really like the fact that you guys are forced in some episodes to figure out the exact instances of sexism and misogyny. Even if you misjudge something (which IMO so far you haven't), you've certainly presented the listeners with the intent of being open to discuss it further if need be.

I am never more aware of the fact that I'm a straight white male American than when I am sitting there trying to figure out how insensitive something is. Like, "This doesn't feel like a big deal but is that only because it's not part of my own experience?" But sometimes something jumps out and can't be ignored.

Enjoyed hearing you guys talking at length about something completely unrelated to the show and then realising that you've probably got to the end of actual episode discussion. That's something that happens on TABHAL pretty much once and episode if not more.

We figured out a long time ago that if we're getting into how badly old MOTU figures smelled, we're probably done discussing anything constructively.

I love Scotty in the original series and I'm happy that you guys are picking up on that. I find his reduction to comedy relief in the Abrams films (particularly Into Darkness) so annoying because TOS Scotty is so badass.

I love Scotty too, and I also love Simon Pegg. However casting a comedian as Scott is doing the character a disservice. Jimmy Doohan was capable of being uproariously funny as Scotty, but it was hardly the only beat that character had, and I really hope that Pegg gets the chance to explore him further.

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I'm only slightly ashamed to admit that I was confused while they were talking about what happened with Khan around the turn of the century. I thought that they were doing some parallel universe thing, as of course, we've never had eugenics wars. Then I remembered this was filmed in the 60's.

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Hey guys, great episode. Mike, I re watched Space Seed and you'll be happy to know Uhrura did recognize the Morse Code when it started beeping.

One thing I was wondering did either of you guys read the Khan books? There's a couple that are supposed to show how the Eugenics War factored into the real life events of our 1990s. If I recall what I know they change it to the E.W basically being a secret history, these things went on but were covered up by other events. There's also a book that's supposed to detail Khan's reign on Ceti Alpha V as well.

I think I enjoyed A Taste of Armageddon more than you guys. For me I really liked this look at what happens when War becomes in a sense, too easy to wage. Again I turn this to my thoughts of the contemporary Cold War when this aired. Imagine the US and USSR agreeing to something similar, both sides end up in a war but to avoid the destruction of the planet agree to this computer system. I think there's also a subtext running through the episode of letting your technology getting out of control. This is linked into that Cold War fear that the systems the USSR and USA were setting up to try and mange the Cold War were possibly in the end, taking over themselves and at some point would get out of control (see Fail-Safe for probably the best exploration of this). The two sides in TOA seemed to have reached this point with their computers taking control of the war and now nobody has any idea of how to stop it.

Finally I think the episode might have been commenting on the inherit craziness/logic of MAD. MAD or Mutual Assured Destruction was (and basically still is) the deterrence policy of the Cold War. Stockpile enough weapons that ensures even after a first strike, you can still destroy the enemy. Here in Taste, we have the two sides agreeing to what the rest of us see as a crazy way to wage their war. However to both of the parties, they see this as the only logical way to keep things going.

Anyway enough ramblings on my part, great episode guys and keep up the good work!

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