Episode 355

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Des offers a theory as to why John Byrne is working on Angel vs. Frankenstein, both guys are baffled by Azrael #1, they're a little split on Cowboy Ninja Viking #1, Mike loses his shit when discussing one of the stories in DCU Halloween Special 2009, and they can't make much sense of GI Joe: Snake Eyes #1. [ 1:04:47 || 29.9 MB ]

The above is from: http://www.earth-2.net/theshow/episodes/e2ts_355.mp3

[SuaveStar]

I can tell you what I think before getting ready to enjoy this!

Azrael: Don't give a shit, Bachs is a good artist from Red Robin, with the only problem being he sucks at consistency with Tim.

DCU: Halloween special. Wanted to read the bizarro story, couldn't care about anything else in these, wasn't paying $5.99 for it.

CNV: I really want to read this, but I couldn't find it in my comic shop.

[Koete]

CNV: I really want to read this, but I couldn't find it in my comic shop.

If you're still using DCBS, they could probably get a copy for you if you shoot them an e-mail.

[Koete]

Cowboy Ninja Viking #1 outsold Walking Dead!? Congrats to the creative team.

[SuaveStar]

CNV: I really want to read this, but I couldn't find it in my comic shop.

If you're still using DCBS, they could probably get a copy for you if you shoot them an e-mail.

Yeah, I might do that, I still have stuff to get sent to me.

[Missy]

Cowboy Ninja Viking #1 outsold Walking Dead!? Congrats to the creative team.

I just double checked that, and that's wrong. On the October sales chart, The Walking Dead #66 ranked at 82 and CNV #1 came in at 204.

[Koete]

Well then...congrats again on the ongoing.

[Dread]

My bad.

I only repeated something I heard.

[Missy]

No worries. And with reorders and reprints, it might have done better than The Walking Dead, but those numbers aren't out yet so I can't say.

[Dread]

Still, it's pretty great these days for any book, let alone an indie book, to be given ongoing status based on first issue preorders.

[SuaveStar]

The world needs more Mike Wonder Woman impressions.

Bachs did the first five issue of Red Robin, even though five is the start of a new arc.

His art their, though nice, was inconsistent to me, Red Robin looked nothing like Tim.

I ain't touching Azrael, their was the following:

The three issue mini.

Detective annual.

Batman annual.

That's five comics with the new character before the first issue of his ongoing. I'm not even counting the Morrison appearances.

[dc20willsave]

As a person who gets the Angel Ongoing, John Byrne has actually written a few issues including a WW2 mini that wasn't too bad. That said, Angel Vs. Frankenstein was far from his best work on the book. Oh well. Might have been better if they had used the Buffy-Verse Dracula but he's also being used in the Buffy ongoing so understandable for not doing so.

[TDK_theBatmaN]

I don't know if there's a suggestion for 1st issue review, but I'd like to hear what you guys thought about Supergod if you're interested.

[Missy]

When was the first issue released? I try to choose books that have just come out, so if this issue is even a month old, that's too far back.

[TDK_theBatmaN]

When was the first issue released? I try to choose books that have just come out, so if this issue is even a month old, that's too far back.

It came out the Wednesday of this week. Thanks for the response!

http://www.tfaw.com/Profile/Supergod-1-%28of-5%29___352831

[Sn4tcH]

I love you guys. Sometimes I swear I just listen so I can hear what you're going to say. I don't think there's any other comic review podcast I listen to that I disagree with so often. But that's the fun right!? I like listening to things that challenge my taste. Of course, I'm listening to self professed Marvel zombies, and I've almost sworn off anything Marvel releases unless the name "Brubaker" is on the cover... we're bound to disagree.

As for Azrael, the reason it got made was because of fan response from the mini, which was awesome. The only thing was that it was so good because of the writing AND the art (Nicieza wrote, Frazer Irving was on art). And to sum it up

Azrael thinks he's doing good, but he doesn't know that the organization he is working for is actually being ran by Ra's Al Ghul.

And seriously, you guys acted like a character has never gotten a full series because of the popularity of a mini before. But I've disagreed with Mike's stance on hand holding in the past, so it's to be expected.

All that said, I actually kind of agree about Azrael #1, but I have to admit, the story felt sub-par until the twist at the end. Otherwise, the issue was meh, not even close to as good as that first mini. As for the art, I'm not really an art guy, but even still, I never liked Bachs. So bad Bachs is even worse.

[Missy]

I don't think there's any other comic review podcast I listen to that I disagree with so often. But that's the fun right!?

Absolutely! If we co-hosts agreed with each other all the time, or praised the darling creator / book of the month every time we sat down, the show would be boring. And if you, the listeners, agreed with everything we said, there would be no point to the forums. Though I've never said anything to purposely be controversial or contrary to popular opinion, I do know when I say those things that are going to generate feedback. And that is where the fun is to be had.

I like listening to things that challenge my taste. Of course, I'm listening to self professed Marvel zombies

I'm a Marvel Zombie, Des is in the DC camp, and Dan (correct me if I'm wrong) leans a little more towards Marvel but falls closer to the center.

And seriously, you guys acted like a character has never gotten a full series because of the popularity of a mini before.

I don't recall either of us saying anything that indicated that. In fact, our discussion of Cowboy Ninja Viking #1 nullifies that point about Azrael #1; CNV was solicited as a four-issue mini, but as we noted, has become an ongoing due to preorder sales and hype.

But I've disagreed with Mike's stance on hand holding in the past, so it's to be expected.

I don't want loads of exposition, but at the same time the first issue of a series has to stand on its own. Even if a miniseries came before, readers who missed the mini will be buying that new book, but Fabian Nicieza seemed to think the opposite when he wrote this. Due to that, Azrael #1 seemed more like a second or third issue rather than a first.

All that said, I actually kind of agree about Azrael #1, but I have to admit, the story felt sub-par until the twist at the end.

It's an interesting twist, I'll give them that, but I don't trust we'll ever get to it. Because it's set six months down the road, in comic book time, that could take us years to reach. And normally I'd be fine with that, but my longing to get there hinges on my enjoyment of the issue / series. Since this issue didn't hook me, I don't care to see how it's wrapped up.

[Sn4tcH]

I don't recall either of us saying anything that indicated that. In fact, our discussion of Cowboy Ninja Viking #1 nullifies that point about Azrael #1; CNV was solicited as a four-issue mini, but as we noted, has become an ongoing due to preorder sales and hype.

So, let's say, CNV ended with #4. And then a few months later the ongoing started with a new #1, and the author assumed you had read the first mini, so he glosses over the origin story. Are you really going to dock it points for not being reader friendly?

I don't want loads of exposition, but at the same time the first issue of a series has to stand on its own. Even if a miniseries came before, readers who missed the mini will be buying that new book, but Fabian Nicieza seemed to think the opposite when he wrote this. Due to that, Azrael #1 seemed more like a second or third issue rather than a first.

To be fair, Azrael #1 is the 6th issue... You had the 3 issues for the mini, and then the 2 Annuals. Jean Paul Valley was introduced in a mini as well, and...

I think, my personal view, is that you probably wouldn't pick up Azrael unless you were a Batman fan, and if you are a Batman fan, you had probably heard all the praise that was poured all over the first mini.

The other thing too, and maybe I'm the weird one, but I have no problem because I'll just read a wiki if I think I've missed something. You could say "Well you shouldn't have to check a wiki for a first issue", but they sum up his story in the first couple of pages too. The first being a blurb above his name that says, "An ex-cop in need of Salvation. A centuries old cult in search of a savior. A Haunted Armor. Swords that wield Alchemical Fire and Ice. Michael Lane is... AZRAEL." And then Officer Farelli sums up his origin again a page later. His origin story was in the mini, so you don't need it again, because that would be annoying. I think they summed up the events nicely.

I mean, I'm defending a comic I only think was so-so, but I think that Azrael #1 is very new reader friendly. It does sum up his origin in the pages, and if anything it will lead people to the great origin story that was in the mini.

[Dread]

I don't think there's any other comic review podcast I listen to that I disagree with so often. But that's the fun right!?

Absolutely! If we co-hosts agreed with each other all the time, or praised the darling creator / book of the month every time we sat down, the show would be boring. And if you, the listeners, agreed with everything we said, there would be no point to the forums. Though I've never said anything to purposely be controversial or contrary to popular opinion, I do know when I say those things that are going to generate feedback. And that is where the fun is to be had.

I disagree.

[Missy]

So, let's say, CNV ended with #4. And then a few months later the ongoing started with a new #1, and the author assumed you had read the first mini, so he glosses over the origin story. Are you really going to dock it points for not being reader friendly?

If it's important to the story, yes. And look, I don't need to know the origin of a character to enjoy a story, but I shouldn't be penalized for not knowing what's come before -- especially when reading a first issue.

To be fair, Azrael #1 is the 6th issue... You had the 3 issues for the mini, and then the 2 Annuals. Jean Paul Valley was introduced in a mini as well, and...

Then put "#6" on it or write the book so that new readers don't feel lost.

I think, my personal view, is that you probably wouldn't pick up Azrael unless you were a Batman fan, and if you are a Batman fan, you had probably heard all the praise that was poured all over the first mini.

Lots of people try new series even if they've never heard of the character before. So though it's mostly Batman fans who'll be buying it, that doesn't mean they're the only ones.

The other thing too, and maybe I'm the weird one, but I have no problem because I'll just read a wiki if I think I've missed something. You could say "Well you shouldn't have to check a wiki for a first issue", but they sum up his story in the first couple of pages too. The first being a blurb above his name that says, "An ex-cop in need of Salvation. A centuries old cult in search of a savior. A Haunted Armor. Swords that wield Alchemical Fire and Ice. Michael Lane is... AZRAEL." And then Officer Farelli sums up his origin again a page later. His origin story was in the mini, so you don't need it again, because that would be annoying. I think they summed up the events nicely.

It's the writer's job to tell me the story. If I'm jumping into Daredevil #502, then yeah, I'll look stuff up that I don't know. But a first issue? No. That means the writer failed in some part.

[Dread]

Yeah, the whole idea is that this segment looks at books from fresh perspectives. if that was actually issue six then it should have been issue #6 and I would have been slightly justified in my confusion. But issues have the number one on them to grab new readers and they must be written with that in mind. Nicieza is a great writer and he knows better.

Jim Shooter (as much of a prick that he was) had something right when he said "every comic is someone's first comic" and thus every comic should be accessible. But that counts one hundredfold for first issues. If you can't make #1 accessible, don't bother printing it.

Also, calling me a "self professed Marvel Zombie" is like calling a car a duck.