The leisurely comic discussion thread

[Molly]

I'm not saying that Superman's main book needs to be made lighter. I'm saying that there is a place in the market for a lighter book, though.

[Dread]

I wonder what the next excuse is going to be when comics become squeaky clean and the sales still suck.

I think a lot of these innocent kids that comics are supposedly neglecting are the same ones playing Left 4 Dead and Halo online right now.

I'm all for raising more kids in the culture and getting them into reading but I really think this whole violence thing is being overstated.

These.

And maybe the guy who writes comics where kids shoot zombies and sometimes other kids in the head shouldn't be the advocate for kids comics. Write another good comic, Kirkman. You're having trouble with that.

[Molly]

Really? We're actually going to go through this again? Don't get me wrong, I am all for Adult Oriented books, but more kid friendly books can only help the industry.

EDIT: And yes, it's slightly hypocritical of Kirkman to say it, but it doesn't make the sentiment wrong.

[Koete]

Like last time, I share Preston's view on the matter.

[Dread]

Kids don't read comics anymore.

[Molly]

Because they're not marketed to them, correctly. And they're too expensive. And hard to get their hands on.

[Koete]

And superhero comics for kids are marginalized to a small line of titles.

[KnightWing]

Kids don't read comics anymore.

I read comics when I was a kid, and that was only a decade ago. The reason I read them was because (A) I liked the cartoons, and (B) the books were at the grocery store my family always went to.

If good comics are actually marketed to kids, they'll do fine.

[Dread]

If good comics are actually marketed to kids, they'll do fine.

This has NOTHING to do with my comment.

Because they're not marketed to them, correctly. And they're too expensive. And hard to get their hands on.

Exactly. None of this does anything but prove I'm right. Newsflash. DC doesn't publish its kids books right now and it looks like Marvel's slowed down.

Tiny Titans, Marvel Adventures, Billy Batson whatever. What do these have in common? Good kids comics. Where are they being marketed? Anyone? A comic store that has them on sale? A comic book news website? A comics podcast? My point exactly.

Ask ANY retailer who their youngest customer is and if they're under 17 then I would put money on the answer they would give to "What do they buy?" My answer? Not comics. Magic, Pokemon. Whatever.

Bam. Kapow. Fizzle. Comics aren't for kids anymore.

[KnightWing]

Nothing about that makes sense. So because kids aren't currently buying comics, that means that they won't? Bullshit.

Pre-schoolers read comics now. Teenagers read comics. Adults read comics. Why are kids the only group of humanity that won't?

There need to be a few more middle-of-the-road comics out there, like the old DCAU comic tie-ins. Stuff that kids from 8-18 can read. And they need to be marketed correctly. Maybe put them in stores that don't already require you to be a comics reader, like Wal-Mart or Target, where kids and their parents will actually end up going. Maybe they can do some good cross-promotion with superhero TV shows and other forms of media.

[Dread]

When did I say they won't? Answer: I didn't.

Reading is good, try it.

[KnightWing]

Hey now, all I said was "if the comics are marketed correctly, kids will buy them."

And there are some decent, kid-safe books out there. Ere go, comics are not "not for kids." That statement might apply to the core titles from Marvel and DC, but it doesn't work as an absolute.

[Molly]

I don't disagree with you at all, Dread. I think we're on the same idea. I don't honestly think that anyone could ever argue with the idea that more kids comics are a good idea.

[Koete]

Speaking of the Irredeemable Ant-Man...

Well, to follow up on that idea of what is or isn't an Avengers title, I hear you've got a new book on tap that involves some of those cast members...

Brevoort: Coming out in November, we're doing a limited series devoted to Ant-Man and the Wasp - that being the Eric O'Grady Ant-Man currently featured in "Secret Avengers" and Hank Pym, The Wasp who is currently featured in "Avengers Academy." It's written and drawn by Tim Seeley, and it's sort of an anti-buddy adventure story in that we have two guys who don't see eye-to-eye and who come from different places but have similar powers and are thrust into a situation that involves the both of them. But they really don't get along too well and are thrown together by fate to have, literally, a big adventure because they are the tiniest things in it. It's being edited by young Jordan D. White. Jordan, what can you tell us about this project?

Jordan D. White: You called it - taking a look around the Marvel Universe, we saw what an interesting situation Ant-Man and Wasp were in right now. One of Marvel's classic super-hero duos, we've got the original Ant-Man, Hank Pym, going by the Wasp moniker, while the current Ant-Man is a (semi-)unrepentant jerk who originally stole the power and used it to spy on ladies. What better time to get the duo back together and watch sparks fly? I am thrilled to be working with Tim Seeley on the project, whose work I've long been a fan of on his creator-owned book, "Hack/Slash." Tim came up with a story that forced the two heroes to knock their heads together to confront some of the dubious decisions they've made in the past. Guest-starring a few of Pym's comrades from "Avengers Academy," Ant-Man and Wasp are going up against A.I.M., who've managed to get their hands on one of Hank's most ingenious inventions...one that has big implications for a certain deceased size-changing hero. It's going to be a really sweet three-issue ride - I hope you all hop aboard!

Tim Seeley I can see doing Eric O'Grady justice.

[SuaveStar]

Because they're not marketed to them, correctly. And they're too expensive. And hard to get their hands on.

I agree with Des, sort of. Kids aren't the target audience anymore. But Preston has a good point. My nephew is seven, and in the perfect demographic for kids books, where does he get his Johnny DC stuff from? Me, when I can.

Just two months ago, Johnny DC titles went up to $2.99, the price of a regular book. Which is $3, lets not lie.

Also, kids don't know where comic shops are, I don't think I've seen a kid under 13 alone in a comic shop ever, when I've been in. Usually the kids are with their parents, and the kids aren't giving two shits about the comics, they are looking at the toys. Most of the time, in my experience.

Comics are way to expensive for kids these days, and I mean the titles orientated at kids. If DC/Marvel were able to do a kids line for less, then I can see kids being able to afford the comics. But they won't be profitable, so it won't happen. Atleast not past a few issues.

[SuaveStar]

Oh, and if you are bothered by violence in a certain comic. Don't read it. There are years and years of stories with most of the same characters without "Extreme violence" they won't be tainted, so go read them.

Also, writing should be a collaborative effort. If you are writing a storyline that you enjoy it can come through in the work: 52.

If you are writing a piece of work that is being editorially mandated all the way through, you get Countdown.

Now for Des to come in a rip my argument apart.

[Guest]

At my store, there's a toy area, a row of manga shelves, and a shelf of graphic novels, all within pretty close proximity.

Kids under 10 are going into the Bakugan section and ignoring the books completely.

Kids between 10 and 16 are looking at manga.

Anyone 16 or older is looking at the comics.

This is despite the entire section being brightly marketed and considered to be the "kids" section.

Pro wrestling is being aggressively marketed to kids and the average age of their viewership is 35.

Average age of a comic book reader? Around 30.

The point Des has been trying to make (and the fact that we're on the same side here disturbs me) is that the focus of comics have been shaped by the audience, not the other way around.

Kids didn't stop reading comics because they were too violent. Comics got violent because kids stopped reading them.

[SuaveStar]

The point Des has been trying to make (and the fact that we're on the same side here disturbs me) is that the focus of comics have been shaped by the audience, not the other way around.

Kids didn't stop reading comics because they were too violent. Comics got violent because kids stopped reading them.

I agree. You market to who's buying. And the only people who are buying, and at current prices are the only ones who can, are the 16+ market who have a good amount of disposable income, or have jobs.

[KnightWing]

I think the problem is that there's not a lot to actually get kids into comics anymore. All the kids who used to read comics are grown up now, and the books have "grown up" with them. Since then, there hasn't really been any reason for kids to read them. The reason kids read manga now is because shows like Naruto have taken over, sorta like the DCAU did back in the 90s. They fill that "semi-serious" area where they've got just enough depth and maturity to really catch the kids' attention, but also don't go too far with the content (unless you watch the uncensored Japanese versions, but that's another story...).

It's weird to me that people always point out books like Tiny Titans as examples of great kids' books. TT is a book written for preschoolers and the older fans that will get the references. Kids from 8-16 won't give a crap.

I really think DC and Marvel should do more cross-promotion. Marvel's got the new Spider-Man series coming out (which looks like it might appeal to the kid demographic) and DC's got Young Justice (which is aimed squarely at the kid demo). If they play their cards right, they can use those shows (as well as the live-action movies) to sell comics.

[Aaron Robinson]

I don't think most kids even know comics exist. It's not surprising, considering that they're mostly sold in comic book stores. It just sucks, because kids still love superheroes, and I'm sure there are tons of kids who would read them if they were available to them in a place that they could actually get them from, at price they could afford. I think they just need to be promoted correctly.

Take the Young Justice cartoon: I think it's a given that it will sell toys, so why not attach a little comic book inside that tells a story about the character it's attached to. Whack an advertisement at the back for a Young Justice comic book, which would also be available in the same places you can get the toys from (aka supermarkets and toystores), and bam! A whole bunch of older kids are reading comics.

Maybe they could do something similar with Blue Beetle. I felt sad reading through the issues of the last Blue Beetle series, because it was a fun comic that never made it into the hands of its target audience. That’s a book that was perfect for a young adult audience, considering that it was a new, younger Blue Beetle, who had to deal with teenage problems.

I’ve heard rumblings that the cartoon version of the character on Brave and the Bold (which is damn similar to the current comic Blue Beetle) was really popular, and I imagine that’s one of the main reasons why a live action show is coming our way. I think that’s another great platform they could use to release a new comic series of a similar tone to the last series, provided that it took place outside of DC continuity.

I don’t know. I’m tired and I’m probably rambling, but I don’t think it would be that hard to get kids reading books if Marvel and DC just experimented a bit. Maybe they just don’t care at this point, or they don’t think it’s worth the risk. Maybe I’m way off and everything I’m suggesting would probably fail horribly. I just wish they’d give it a shot.

[KnightWing]

^All that stuff is exactly how I feel.^

Kids do know comics exist, they just don't know they should care.

That idea for YJ toy/comic cross-promotion is an awesome idea; I really hope they do stuff like that.

[ShaunKL]

So, I just finished Watchmen, started the last issue at midnight, how cool is that?

[SuaveStar]

So, I just finished Watchmen, started the last issue at midnight, how cool is that?

D'you enjoy it then?

[ShaunKL]

Hmm, I going to have to collect my thoughts on it, but my gut reaction is, "Good story, slightly unsatisfying ending." 7.5/10

[KnightWing]

I wasn't super-high on Watchmen until later when I gave it some thought. It definitely robs the reader of the emotional climax that most comics give.