RSS Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 In this pilot episode of The Edge of Forever, Dan Toland and Michael Sims discuss "The Cage," the original Star Trek pilot from 1965. Topics of discussion include the many differences between this episode and what would become Star Trek, Gene Roddenberry's wandering eye, and the influence of color television on the design of the Starfleet uniforms. Please come back on 25 May for the first official episode of The Edge of Forever. [ 1:13:35 || 35.8 MB ]To listen, click here: http://www.earth-2.net/podcasts/theedgeofforever/episodes/theedgeofforever_000.mp3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mockery Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Great opening episode. Looking forward to the show proper. If you are interested in reading more about the making of the show with an uncompromising view of all of Gene Roddenberry's best and worst qualities then I would thoroughly recommended the book Inside Star Trek by Herb Solow and Robert H Justman. They are the two men who worked closest with Roddenberry to make the show and it is a fascinating read. It's definitely a warts and all behind the scenes book and the authors are very honest about their time working with Roddenberry. They clearly liked the guy but he could also be something of a nightmare. For instance Trek lore says that the character of Number One was removed because the studio thought that a female second in command wouldn't play with audiences. In reality the network had no issue with a woman first officer but they didn't like Majel Barret in the role. They were somewhat annoyed when Roddenberry managed to sneak her back into the show as Nurse Chapel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Great opening episode. Looking forward to the show proper. If you are interested in reading more about the making of the show with an uncompromising view of all of Gene Roddenberry's best and worst qualities then I would thoroughly recommended the book Inside Star Trek by Herb Solow and Robert H Justman. They are the two men who worked closest with Roddenberry to make the show and it is a fascinating read. It's definitely a warts and all behind the scenes book and the authors are very honest about their time working with Roddenberry. They clearly liked the guy but he could also be something of a nightmare. For instance Trek lore says that the character of Number One was removed because the studio thought that a female second in command wouldn't play with audiences. In reality the network had no issue with a woman first officer but they didn't like Majel Barret in the role. They were somewhat annoyed when Roddenberry managed to sneak her back into the show as Nurse Chapel. Thanks, Dave! I've wanted to read Inside Star Trek for years. It's been out of print for well over a decade now, and tends to be hellishly expensive. I will definitely keep an eye out for a reasonably priced copy, though. I really don't want to harp on this, especially since in all fairness she's not the only one in the cast, but Majel Barrett was truly a mediocre actress on the best day she ever had. If she had been in a more visible role for the long term it would have been truly grating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Thanks, Dave!According to Nichelle Nichols, she and Roddenberry had an affair before Star Trek (while Gene was married to his first wife), and they only broke it off because he was also sleeping with (and had fallen in love with) Majel. Some time later, when he was producing Star Trek, he cast Nichols because he fondly remembered her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stavros Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Just so you know Dan, I'm on the opposite side of the Majel Barrett issue. When I was younger I disliked Mrs Troi immensely but when I bought the DVDs about 5 years ago I completely flipped, purely because it brings out a different side in the crew. Deanna is more multifaceted in those encounters and I really enjoy uncomfortable Picard. I honestly think the three greatest fears of Picard are the Borg, children and Mrs Troi and the list priority is purely determined by proximity. As for her acting I've not had an issue just because in the pantheon of terrible actors in the franchise she's nowhere near the bottom. Anyway, good show guys! This one should keep you going through to your pension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Oh, Lwaxana Troi is hilarious. Make no mistake. The fact that Picard is absolutely terrified of this woman and actually physically hides from her is possibly the greatest thing that's ever happened in the history of the franchise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightWing Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 See, that's the thing. I don't think Majel is in any way "bad" as Chapel or Lwaxana; I think she's actually good considering the characters she's playing. Chapel is a very "normal" person in a sea of slightly bizarre characters, while Lwaxana is an OTT cartoon character. In both cases she's just playing what she's given, and I think she gives Lwaxana in particular a spark that a lesser actress couldn't pull off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mockery Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Are you guys going to be covering the animated series? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 That is currently the plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 The beauty of Lwaxana Troi is that she shows that Starfleet Officers aren't as peaceful and utopian as they seem. I honestly wish there were more characters like her on TNG, to shake things up sometimes, because it got to be too much of a love-fest after a while. (I think that's why I love DS9 the most. Even by the end of the series, when the crew had grown into a family, they still annoy the shit out of each other from time to time.)Getting back on Lwaxana (eww), I've long thought there was untapped potential in a Lwaxana / Riker relationship. Not sexual, 'cause, eww (again). What I mean is, he came ever so close to becoming her son-in-law long before he joined the Enterprise crew. With that in mind, I would have liked to have seen either some playful / familiar banter between the two, or some resentment on her part over Will dumping Deanna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightWing Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 If I remember correctly, there definitely were lines in TNG referencing that. Though Lwaxana didn't resent Riker; she just had an attitude of "well, your loss." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 It's been a long time since I've seen seasons one and two of TNG, but I think you might be right. That said, it was a lost opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donomark Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Having watched this for the first time on Netflix in prep for the podcast, I didn't think the acting was all that Godawful. Maybe it was because I was fairly wrapped up in what I was seeing that I didn't let any overt goofiness distract me. I actually kind of like Majel Barrett as Number One, although that might be more for the idea of her character than her acting. Susan Oliver certainly did go over the top at times tho, that cannot be denied. A lot of this is coming in new for me as I've seen so little of the classic series. The sexism in the episode struck me more as a character trait of Pike and even Vina moreso than a narrative for the show itself, although I've no doubt more is coming. I liked the scene where Number One gives Pike a death stare when he whines about women on the ship (or something), although it seriously begs the question that if a woman in such a high state of command is normal in the future why he would have such an attitude about it in the first place. It did get really bad when it was revealed that the aliens solution to keeping Pike on their planet was by throwing him Vina. It made sense for plot reasons, but the character acted like hooking up with a man was so much her end all-be all purpose in life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badhead Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Majel Barrett was in an episode of babylon 5 as well. where she was quite good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightWing Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 I liked the scene where Number One gives Pike a death stare when he whines about women on the ship (or something), although it seriously begs the question that if a woman in such a high state of command is normal in the future why he would have such an attitude about it in the first place.One of the weird aspects of TOS's social commentary is that it simultaneously shows a future where certain social faux pas are commonplace (i.e., a woman in command), but also tries to tackle those issues from time to time. So it has Number One in her position, but also tries to make a point about sexism being stupid when that doesn't make sense to even be a topic for TOS's future setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davedevil Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 Great show guys! I was never really interested in Star Trek, but I recently saw the first Abrams movie and it got me intrigued enough to want to check out what's come before. This podcast is as good a prompt as any I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rjoyadet Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 The first time I saw this was in "The Menagerie" and recognized it for showing the original pilot. I recently saw the pilot a couple of months ago and now see how the set was very similar to the 1956 movie "Forbidden Planet" I am glad the aesthetics of the later episodes changed to become its own thing. http://startrekfactcheck.blogspot.com/2013/07/gene-roddenberrys-cinematic-influences.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deer Tick Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 Enjoyable pilot episode. As far as suggestions: I have one thing in mind to try to keep count of throughout the podcast: the number of times Kirk's shirt is torn in a fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mockery Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 I'm now doing a rewatch of Star Trek and the thought occurs that you should keep a count of whenever McCoy says "He's dead Jim!". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 Will do! I was also thinking of adding an "I'm a _____, not a _____!" count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightWing Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 I will never not laugh at "I'm a doctor, not an escalator!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 I just sent in my first email so I'll try not to repeat too much of what I said there. By the way, I had a lot to say and not a lot of time to write it so forgive me if there are errors and such in the email, I didn't have time to proofread. Anyway I'll just briefly tell you my thoughts on the pilot, I really enjoyed it. I have a few minor suggestions that I put in my email but by and large it was a fantastic start off. I actually recommended “He’s dead, Jim” and “I’m a doctor, not a” counts in my email as well as a couple others I'll be interested in hearing. The one last thing I'll bring up here is about your decision to read emails at the end. Maybe I'm wrong but wouldn't the incoming emails be in response to your comments on the episodes you discussed last time not the ones you'd be yet to discuss? I'm not opposed to you guys reading emails at the end, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mockery Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 I think it depends. On Shake and Blake we would split feedback into stuff about the podcast and show in general but any feedback for the episodes we were talking about we would leave until the end of our discussion of each episode. It often threw up subjects we hadn't discussed or reminded us of things we were going to mention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rjoyadet Posted April 26, 2014 Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 Whenever I see Yeoman J.M. Colt I keep waiting for June Lockhart and Captain Zorro to come running in with tears in their eyes, so happy to have found their long lost daughter has been found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 Please come back on 25 May for the first official episode of The Edge of Forever. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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