RSS Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Firstly, roving gangs, killer machines, cannibal grannies, and an undying architect plague The Doctor and Mel ("Paradise Towers"). Then genocidal mercenaries hunt an alien queen to Earth, in an effort to destroy her and her rapidly growing spawn ("Delta and the Bannermen"). And lastly, a dragon holds the key to an icy madman's freedom ("Dragonfire"). Additionally, Dan teaches Mike a new word, Mel leaves The Doctor to take up with Sabalom Glitz, Ace debuts, and Dan believes the 24th season just might be the worst ever. [ 2:24:04 || 69.2 MB ] To listen, click here: http://www.earth-2.net/podcasts/biggerontheinside/episodes/bigger_084.mp3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 As I scanned through the stories for clips to use, I noticed McCoy was playing the manipulative and / or stern Doctor in all three stories. Even "Paradise Towers" featured him doing this as he turned an interrogation around and became the interrogator. It's too bad those moments were few and buried in the pile of crap that was "Paradise Towers." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc20willsave Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 I haven't listened yet but expect a counter argument on Paradise Towers from me after I've had time to hear your talking points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badhead Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 The problem with ACE highlights the problem with Cartmel and his team of writers overall. He had the right idea, but at the end of the day. He was not experienced or talented enough to pull it off. Even the best Mccoy stories are full of pretenious dialouge that a teenager might write. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stovepipe Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Delta and the Bannermen is probably the most misunderstood story ever. And I wouldn't have minded Ray as a companion. Sometimes I wonder what the rest of the McCoy era would be like with her instead of Ace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc20willsave Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 A lot less explosions and you wouldn't have had the most kick-ass companion since Ian Chesterton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koete Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 A lot less explosions and you wouldn't have had the most kick-ass companion since Ian Chesterton. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Kay Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 You know, I just thought of something with Ace--I wonder if maybe she was partial inspiration for Carrie Kelly in Dark Knight Returns. Younger, not as punk, but she was this semi-normal teen who gets sucked into the world of an increasingly dark old man, her first attempt at "fighting crime" involved a cherry bomb, and the swear for all the young people in the story? "Aces." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Ace was created the year after Dark Knight Returns was released, but I have no doubt in my mind the reverse is true. There's a LOT of Carrie Kelly in Ace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Carrie Kelley is one of the most overrated characters of all time, so I hope I don't see too many similarities between her and Ace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Kay Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Ace was created the year after Dark Knight Returns was released, but I have no doubt in my mind the reverse is true. There's a LOT of Carrie Kelly in Ace. Oh yeah, DKR did come out in '86, not 87. Bit of a mess-up on my part. The reverse does make sense--didn't one of you say that the current script editor was into comics at that time? If he was trying to court Alan Moore, he was probably familiar with Miller. Carrie Kelley is one of the most overrated characters of all time, so I hope I don't see too many similarities between her and Ace. Okay, them are fighting words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muppet Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 good podcast as usual *looks around to make sure no burning torches are nearby* alas i quite like Paradise Towers i really couldn't say why though, i just quite like the look of it, not seen it in long time though I like Richard Briars, he always sits in the little compartment in my head with Bernard Cribbens, though that could be the whole wombles/rhubarb and custard thing. Thinking about it, Derek Griffiths for next companion must say i don't think Adric died a heroic death. From what i remember he had the chance to get off and decided he wanted to dick about with a puzzle, one which if he succeeded would of messed up human history. If he done what he was told and got out of there he'd be alive and nothing would of changed. I am probably missing something though, maybe i will watch earthshock again, at the very least it's always good for a wee chuckle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Paterson Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Your talk of Ace's nickname reminded me of this favourite (of mine) quote from Red Dwarf: "Rimmer, your nickname was never Ace. Maybe Ace-Hole?" Anyway, I really like the character, especially when she's not calling people toerags and birdbaths etc. It probably helps that Sophie Aldred was my second ever TV crush (in spite of not catching the stories when they first went out - I would have been 2 at the time). For my money, the season's not great. I've only seen Paradise and Delta once each, and am struggling to bring myself to get the DVDs, no matter what the completist in me says. Dragonfire is far and away my favourite though, so for me it's 1) Dragonfire, 2) Delta, 3) Time and the Rani and 4) Paradise Towers. Also - Mr Wilson, should you ever want to borrow some classic stuff, you know where I live... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothian Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Your talk of Ace's nickname reminded me of this favourite (of mine) quote from Red Dwarf: "Rimmer, your nickname was never Ace. Maybe Ace-Hole?" Anyway, I really like the character, especially when she's not calling people toerags and birdbaths etc. It probably helps that Sophie Aldred was my second ever TV crush (in spite of not catching the stories when they first went out - I would have been 2 at the time). Ditto - she did a lot of Children's TV & schools programming back in the day. Her, Michaela Strachan and Phillippa Forrester were quite the holy trinity of crush-worthy presenters! Also - Mr Wilson, should you ever want to borrow some classic stuff, you know where I live... I'll bring a list for when I'm down in a few weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Kay Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 *looks around to make sure no burning torches are nearby* alas i quite like Paradise Towers i really couldn't say why though, i just quite like the look of it, not seen it in long time though I can get why--from the description of what the locale is, it sounds quite delightfully insane. Cannibal little old ladies, how can you NOT love that? I haven't watched it myself, but from the sounds of it, it sounds like a fun idea that wasn't executed terribly well. In fact, I just thought of something--seemingly innocent looking hotel with creepy guests run by a monster...I wonder if this was a partial basis for The God Complex last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stovepipe Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 I don't hate Paradise Towers. I think it's decent, but I have a feeling it's only because Time and the Rani was such a mess that anything would look much better in comparison. However, the real question is this: Red Kangs or Blue Kangs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakob1978 Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 the three parters really work well. It's interesting because in effect, the 3 McCoy seasons were filmed as 2 four parters and 1 six parter. The 2 three parters were filmed in a block (like they do with todays show) with the same director and behind the scenes crew. They rejigged the budget so instead of a 6 parter, with location and studio, they made one story completely on location (Delta and the Bannermen, Silver Nemesis and Survival), and one story completely in the studio (Dragonfire, Happiness Patrol and Ghostlight). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muppet Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 I don't hate Paradise Towers. I think it's decent, but I have a feeling it's only because Time and the Rani was such a mess that anything would look much better in comparison. However, the real question is this: Red Kangs or Blue Kangs? Red Kangs of course! Blue Kangs are far too emo, the Kang for the modern age maybe. Besides Red Kangs go faster, all they need is some go faster stripes and the cleaners would never stand a chance at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 Mel did come back in one New Adventures novel - Head Games - which you mentioned. However, it is not a happy reunion by any stretch of the imagination. Mel comes to outright loathe this 'new' Doctor, with his manipulations and suchlike. At one point she tells him 'You aren't the Doctor I knew. You're a user, a liar and quite possibly a murderer as well. I don't wish to know you.' And as for what she thinks of Ace, who's left and come back as a soldier by now... Peri also turned up a New Adventures book, and wasn't exactly happy with the Doctor for leaving her behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 Some were great, but on the whole I really have no use for the New Adventures. I truly detest a lot of what they did to the Doctor's character. I don't go so far as to decry them as out of canon - as I always say, everyone has their own canon - but they're easily ignored, and truth be told, the new series has flat out contradicted and overridden some of what's in them, so I don't feel like I'm missing anything. They just weren't my cup of tea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mockery Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 The Virgin Missing Adventures are deffinately worth a look. Especially Gareth Roberts' trilogy of Fourth Doctor and Romana books The Romance of Crime, The English Way of Death and The Well Mannered War. He pefercly captures the spirit of the Graham Williams era Doctor and Romana. The Virgin books were Roberts break into writing and he has since written The Shakespere Code, The Lodger and Closing Time as well as working on The Sarah Jane Adventures. I was extremely pleased when the alien race he invented for the several new and missing Adventures, The Chelonians, were mentioned in The Pandorica Opens as that now makes them canon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 The Missing Adventures were great, yes. Because they were held closer to continuity, the writers were a little more restricted in what they were allowed to do. And Jonathan Morris' Festival of Death stands as an amazing book, both as being entertaining all on its own, and as the most spot-on perfect recreation of Graham Williams-era Tom Baker ever put to page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donomark Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 Some were great, but on the whole I really have no use for the New Adventures. I truly detest a lot of what they did to the Doctor's character. I don't go so far as to decry them as out of canon - as I always say, everyone has their own canon - but they're easily ignored, and truth be told, the new series has flat out contradicted and overridden some of what's in them, so I don't feel like I'm missing anything. They just weren't my cup of tea. You spoke of the added adult content in the books and how most of the characters save for the Doctor were swearing and killing and such. What did they do to the Doctor's character exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 Hard to describe. Basically, everything that he was doing in the last two years of the show, amped up to 11. Every situation was walked into with the Doctor knowing everything, and be did the whole master chess player thing all over the place. Don't get me wrong, there were some great stories, but by and large I don't like the omniscient, all-powerful, undefeatable god aspect of the Doctor's character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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