Episode 71

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After playing two really cool sound bites, James and Mike plot a Superman video game trilogy, then they discuss "Fury," "Legends," "A Knight of Shadows," and "Metamorphosis." One of those reviews features the return of Mike's "stoner" persona. [ 2:14:49 || 61.8 MB ]

The above is from: http://www.worldsfinestpodcast.com/episodes/wfp_071.mp3

[Donomark]

*Crosses fingers* Here's hoping you guys don't shit on Legends or A Knight of Shadows. Metamorphosis I could care less...

[James D.]

One note I forgot to mention during the "Knight of Shadows" review:

Flash's line when Diana asks him if he's familiar with Hickman's work, "I, uh, only read it for the articles", was absolutely godly.

[Dread]

Godly? Cliched and funny but it wasn't that good.

[Koete]

Hey, Mike B.

[James D.]

Godly? Cliched and funny but it wasn't that good.

In a cartoon, yes, it was that good.

[Mr. Mxyzptlk]

Legends is my favorite of the season. expecting great things.

[Guest DCAUFan1051]

Hey, Mike B.

[Guest DCAUFan1051]

Mike-

first off I know your feeling of 1 theme throughout WFP... however would it be possible to have the JLU theme at the end of the first episode you start JLU before you do the administrative stuff?

So basically it would be like this:

final episode review of that podcast ep/scores

JLU theme

Administrative

BTAS theme

please!

[Donomark]

I have to say I was dissapointed with the "Knight of Shadows" review. I may be a tad biased because it is a particular favorite of mine, but I don't see the point of moaning about J'onn wanting to see his family again. Mike said it was way over the top, and I ask exactly how? The context must be noted in that J'onn was a husband and father who lost his family to war over at least a century ago. Despite the length of time, there's been no indication at all that he's gotten over it and, unlike Superman, he's the last of his race who remembers his race. That pain is all the more visceral to him once he sees visions and images of his family beckoning him. I think the fact that Morgan Le'Fay was manipulating a psychic made him all the more susceptible, and even then he did try to fight it. But if you had lost your entire family, and saw the chance to reunite with them again, wouldn't you be tempted to taking that chance?

Not only that, but concerning the OUTRAGEOUS point of him nearly giving the stone to Le'Fay...I mean it's not like he killed the Demon or any of the League members. So he almost aided in destroying the world, so what? In the end he saved the world. If any of the other leaguers were in the same position, for example Superman, would your reaction be the same? And he did take full responisbility and attempt to resign, but again it's not like this couldn't happen to anyone else. If any of the other Leaguers were tempted, the result would most likely be the same, thus showing how strong morally each of them are. So the direction the climax was heading was pretty much foretold from the start. If you don't like it, blame the premise, which isn't the most original story but still I found it entertaining. Don't get all outraged when it goes through because what other path could it have gone down?

There were other points of the episode I personally really enjoyed such as the kickass animation near the end with tons of shadows, and J'onn using his abilites in ways we neevr saw before this episode. But I'm sorry, it just felt as though you guys were overeacting to something that was not worth getting upset about. The episode was about showing how strong a character J'onn J'onzz is morally by waving his greatest weakness right in front of him( his lost family, not necesserily fire) and having him overcome it and single handedly saving the day. The episode accentuates this by having him vocally express the pain of his survivor's guilt at the cost of his family, and using that to take out both of of DC's more powerful magic based characters as well as a powerful mystic. To complain about the fact that he was tempted, felt bad when he saw his dead loved ones for the first time in hundreds of years, and yelling for him to be kicked out of the league when he attempts to resign is completely missing the point.

[KnightWing]

I'm on Mike and James' side as far as J'onn goes. Sure, he didn't ultimately decide to give Morgaine the stone, but he came really damn close. Superman would never have even contemplated giving Morgaine the stone, even if it meant restoring Krypton. Batman never would have considered it, even if it meant getting his parents back. Diana never would have given Morgaine the stone, even if it meant getting Batman's pants off—er... um, nevermind that.

Seriously. J'onn doesn't get points for not ultimately giving her the stone; he loses points for actually considering it.

[Guest tnr105]

I eagerly await the Savage Time, and when season 2 of Justice League starts. The whole first season is kinda weak due to them trying to find their ground. Your ideas for a Superman Videogame are awesome, hopefully we will see one if Arkham Asylum 2 does well (which I have no doubt it will). Compare Arkham Asylum to the Superman Returns videogame. I beat the latter in 6 hours, and the gameplay was repetitive. I'm STILL trying to finish Arkham Asylum by finishing all the Riddler stuff. I agree Supes should be offworld to Apokolips and New Genesis, with allies such as Orion and Mr. Miracle battling your Darkseids or Braniacs. On earth, he runs out of villians and seems either too powerful or to week. The villains in the Superman Returns Game are: Metallo, Bizarro, Mongul, and Mxyptlk. All are capable of going toe to toe with the Last son of Krypton, then we have him taken down by dragons, a multiple man ripoff, and robots. If you think the final battle pits Superman against Lex Luthor or one of the other rouges, no. Superman fights a tornado. Superman beats up a fucking tornado to end the game. After dispatching the likes of Metallo and Bizarro, maybe one expects to fight Lex Luthor in his battle armor. No. The final boss is a tornado. ... In WFP news however, I look forward to you to gushing over the blackhawks and the even bad-assier savage time Batman, (with the cameo's of Dick, Babs, Tim, and Cassandra. No it is not Annie people, Annie, though anime influenced, is not asian)

[dc20willsave]

Damn, so close to getting a Neon Genesis Evangelion retrospective. Oh well. So much for my hopes for a "Shinji is a pussy" count.

[Missy]

I bought J'onn's temptation the first time she dangled the carrot in front of him. It was all the subsequent times that got on my nerves. He knew it was fake. He knew she was manipulating him. He was told this several times, yet he kept falling into the same trap. It got tired.

[James D.]

I bought J'onn's temptation the first time she dangled the carrot in front of him. It was all the subsequent times that got on my nerves. He knew it was fake. He knew she was manipulating him. He was told this several times, yet he kept falling into the same trap. It got tired.

This.

[Dread]

Godly? Cliched and funny but it wasn't that good.

In a cartoon, yes, it was that good.

But if you're looking at things "as a cartoon" then why nitpick other stuff?

[GoFlash]

Couple thoughts (at least with how far I got on the way to work)...

For Fury, they did it again. They made it worse when they commented on "Amazon strength", confirming that all of the Amazons are superstrong. And they're warriors, trained for thousands of years. So how the hell is Hippolyta kicked around so easily? She's not exactly living up to that strong woman vibe that the Amazons are supposed to have. Last time, she got hauled down to the basement and chained by Felix Faust?!? Him? Manhandling Hippolyta? This time, Sakuri takes her out with a single blow. Oy. (Actually, I just saw a JLU reunion - the second episode of "Castle" had Nathan Fillion (Vigilante), Susan Sullivan (Hippolyta) as his mother, and George Newburn as a suspect.)

For Legends, the alternate dimension explanation certainly should sound reasonable - it's been canon at DC since 1961 (Flash 123, Flash of 2 Worlds). The frustrating thing was that given that it's lifted straight from Flash comics, GL is the one who gets them home.

Being anime-illiterate, I actually thought that Luthor's robot looked like a large scale Ultron, from the Avengers. (They had a 13 episode series about 1999 - maybe that's in continuity, too.)

Tom Turbine seemed like he had a certain amount of Mr. Terrific in his makeup as well - and he definitely had that CC Beck look to him.

All of the Music Meister slips were made more entertaining considering that Ray was voiced by Neil Patrick Harris - his first comic book role.

Mike, to answer your question about Black Canary, in the 1940s, she not only didn't have her canary cry, her name wasn't Lance. Dinah Drake used hand to hand combat. In fishnets. She didn't get the canary cry until she left Earth-2 and crossed to Earth-1 in 1969. Later, they retconned things. Dinah Drake was the original Black Canary. She retired and married Larry Lance. Their daughter Dinah Lance had DC's metagene and developed the canary cry, then took on her mother's old identity. She's the one who was retconned into a founding member of the JLA, had a relationship with Green Arrow, etc.

As I understand, there were concerns about using the JSA - I'm not sure how much of it were that they weren't real, and how much of it was the period accurate to currently questionable things like cookies and "a credit to your people". There is actually a 10 second trailer featuring the Flash running backwards in time until he morphs into Jay Garrick standing with Black Canary, Alan Scott, Wildcat, and Al Pratt's Atom. Amazingly, someone actually posted this on Youtube (Mike, I think we need a special "I'm being sarcastic" font for comments like that last.)

Chris

[Missy]

Hippolyta: I meant to mention that, but I forgot. She's getting manhandled pretty easily.

Legends: Yeah, The Flash causing the rift was clearly a reference to "Flash of Two Worlds," and I wanted to kick myself afterwards for not mentioning it.

Black Canary: Thanks for clearing things up regarding her superpower and name. I knew she was a Drake, but because the tombstone said Donna Nance, I mixed things up and said the original was called Dinah Lance.

[James D.]

Godly? Cliched and funny but it wasn't that good.

In a cartoon, yes, it was that good.

But if you're looking at things "as a cartoon" then why nitpick other stuff?

My point is, as an isolated incident, I think it was funny to throw that line into an animated show marketed by the network to kids. It's going to go over the kids' heads, but adults can snicker at it if they find it funny. And it's clear that we differ on what we find funny or not, so I'm just gonna leave it there.

[GoFlash]

Two more Hawkgirl thoughts -

The line about "What kind of criminals tip off the authorities?" (And on a Sunday!) is great; still, there's always this little voice reminding me, "Ahh, isn't she teammates with Batman? As in, the guy who fights the Riddler? Didn't Joker also make a couple broadcasts about how he was going to do some dastardly deed?"

Also, as to Mike's comment about how everyone had a role, and Hawkgirl demonstrated both her own personality as well as serving (no pun intended) as a foil for the Golden Age role expectations. She also is the one who found the evidence that all was not well in Pleasantville when she found the graves after crashing during the pursuit of the airplane.

Chris

[Dread]

I find it funny, but it's the oldest joke on TV.

I just find it an odd thing to pick out. The fastest man alive thing was much funnier. Flash has one or two comments every episode that I find funnier than the "articles" thing.

I'm not the biggest fan of that entire episode actually. Seems rushed, trite and cliched throughout.

[James D.]

I'm not the biggest fan of that entire episode actually. Seems rushed, trite and cliched throughout.

I agree.

[grahamvidger]

A couple of problems with Legends.

Two times Flash runs too long for the distance at his speed. First, he and the streak are running and sort of fighting, at that speed they would have finished running the field they were on in half that time, then flash saves the kid, juts across the street, this takes too long to run there and back and exchange a wink or a couple words, then they get to the field.

I hated the beginning scene, they just needed any simple scene where Flash has to carry something huge with his tornado run thing that speeds him and the league to the other earth. Why did there have to be that stupid robot that has been already said by you guys to be rip off of something, and then have the enemy controlling it be laughing and then fans questioning if its Luthor. Then Luthor gets shot out of his control boat because the monster got blown up and electrocuted a mile away from where Luthor was.

[Donomark]

I bought J'onn's temptation the first time she dangled the carrot in front of him. It was all the subsequent times that got on my nerves. He knew it was fake. He knew she was manipulating him. He was told this several times, yet he kept falling into the same trap. It got tired.

This.

Okay then, we'll agree to disagree.

[Mr. Mxyzptlk]

the thing with J'onn in Knight of Shadows is so awful and the fact that he keeps falling for the temptation is only part of the problem. the real problem is that you have a character as potentially rich as J'onn, and the only thing you can do to pose a conflict for him is to hypnotize him with memories of his past in the most cliched 'J'onn, oh J'onn, it's your wife and your kids! etc. etc.' that feels so strained and out of a bad movie. it provides nothing insightful about his character whatsoever, because it's such a cliched, predictable scenario that doesn't appeal to any specific facet of J'onn's character besides the fact of his tragic past, in which case he's interchangeable with Batman or Superman. i kind of see it as J'onn's Perchance to Dream or For the Man Who Has Everything, except those episodes were not only character-specific, but they had narrative and thematic depth. this was just an endless series of pretty fantasies repeating themselves over and over again and it's overbearing and unconvincing.