Favorite / Best: Disney Renaissance


Gareth
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Favorite / Best: Disney Renaissance  

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True as that is, Hunchback is the hardest work to Disneyfy in a satisfactory way. Which is why it didn't quite work, even though it has some real fluorishes.

Right okay, that's why I think for this particular project they should have thrown the Disney formula out the window (which they did in part) kept everything else intact and made a really engaging and fantastic adaptation. As it stands it's just a good movie.

Frollo having the most dramatic reaction to a boner ever (aka be mine or BURN IN HELL), a touch of genocide (murder all the gypsies and burn down a good part of Paris!), Frollo's entire death scene, and the weird double standard in how they treat Quasimodo? Yeah, maybe would've been a bit more appropriate for a PG-13 adaptation. I was eight when I saw it, and it gave me nightmares for weeks, even more so for my little sister.

Hunchback is one of those movies that you remember as being the most fucked up movie you've ever seen but then you re-watch it years later and you laugh at yourself. Having said that, by Disney standards it was very ballsy, Fantasia aside it's easily their most adult film. And if they had had the balls to keep it that way without all the dumb comedy it would have been one of their best movies, again if you look at it from an adult perspective.

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Fave is Aladdin, hands down, so much energy from the Williams performance and I love Gilbert Gottfried. Also, Aladdin is busted checking out Jasmine's butt, it's hilarious.

Best is B&B, I love the Lion King, but Beauty and the Beast is just a hands down great story and musical.

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You guys do realize that Beauty and the Beast is "Stockholm Syndrome: The Musical," right? The story is actually pretty fucked up.

It's actually the inverse of that. It's the story of the Beast turning around from being a terrible person into a selfless person who not only decides he was wrong and lets Belle go, but nearly sacrifices his life defending her from wolves and fighting Gaston. By the time Belle actually ever says "I love you," he's completely turned around. It's even spelled out in the theme song. (Bittersweet and strange / Finding you can change / Learning you were wrong)

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(Spoiler: If you're in an abusive relationship, so long as you're nice to him, he'll totally change, girls!)

That is, I think, a very twisted and surface-level reading of the story, taken from a very one-sided perspective. It's a problem I've always had with B&B's detractors. Now, I do think that women being in abusive one-sided relationships is a gigantic problem, and I despise stories that actually promote the "I can change him" line of thinking. B&B just isn't that type of story, when you really examine it.

Belle never backs down or has any affection for the Beast whatsoever until after he sacrifices his life hor her fighting the wolves (note: if she hadn't helped him back to the castle and cleaned his wounds, he probably would have died. The essay linked to above devalues this as being an example of a woman not "escaping" her abusive boyfriend because she sees him as in needing of help, but it ignores the fact that the Beast literally sacrificed his life. That's a fair bit different than "he's got some problems"). It's not as though Belle ever sits there and says "I can change him;" she stands her ground and says, "I can't leave here, but so help me I will NOT stand for you treating me and everyone else like garbage." Once he proves he's willing to change, she then proceeds to help him learn to be a gentler and more polite person. It's not a stockholm syndrome story; it's a story of Belle having strength of character and the Beast choosing to put aside his own ego and change for the better. To say that it's an "I can change him" story completely devalues the Beast as a character, reducing him to a mere animal who is incapable of making choices independent of Belle's influence. On the contrary, the Beast's entire arc, set up all the way in the opening monologue, essentially says that he needs to learn to choose love and compassion (choosing not to be a prideful egotistical animal; i.e. a beast).

The complexity of both Belle and the Beast is one of my favorite aspects of the film; you can't simply apply generic labels to them as in so many other Disney films and expect that to give you a complete picture.

It's entirely possible that girls could get a negative idea from watching the movie, but there's also some very strong messages about selfless love that should be taken more to heart.

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The Beast kidnaps Belle and locks her in a dungeon until his furniture makes him let her loose, I don't care how great The Candle and Clock sing, she's not going to fall in love with him. Belle has zero survival instinct. Honestly, I was kind of rooting for Gaston, he may have been a blow hard, but at least he tried to save Belle... ...for entirely selfish reasons.

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You guys do realize that Beauty and the Beast is "Stockholm Syndrome: The Musical," right? The story is actually pretty fucked up.

I'm sorry, Beauty and the Beast has NOTHING on Seven Brides for Seven Brothers on that front.

(You're not wrong though.)

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The Beast kidnaps Belle and locks her in a dungeon until his furniture makes him let her loose, I don't care how great The Candle and Clock sing, she's not going to fall in love with him.

See, there I think you're dismissing the entire basis of the Beast's character arc.

And, to be technical, all he did was keep her in the castle. He never tried to rape her or abuse her otherwise. Sure, it was still a terrible thing to do, but I don't think it's unforgivable, especially since he nearly dies trying to save her life soon afterward. Furthermore, toward the end, he (essentially) says, "I was wrong to keep you here; I'm sorry; you can go." He chooses to let her leave to be with her father, knowing already that it means he'll probably never see her again and won't be able to break the spell. You can't even argue that he's doing it in order to gain her love, since he doesn't think she'll ever come back. He'd rather that she be free and happy than try to force her to love him, even if it means he'll remain a beast.

As love stories go, that one's pretty well-earned.

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Or we could remember that it's a freaking fairy tale and stop over-analyzing it. If we want to over-analyze everything, Scar and Mufasa (and eventually Simba) have probably had sex with every single lioness in the pride which includes Nala once she came of age. For that matter, Simba and Nala would both have still been treated as outsiders from the pride when they returned and Nala probably would have been killed by the lionesses.

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