The Doctor Who thread

[Missy]

It took me a few minutes to realize this, but after watching The Time of The Doctor, I have now seen every single episode of Doctor Who.

[JasonC]

So, Tasha Lem is River, isn't she?

There is a growing school of thought that says Clara's Nan is River...

[Donomark]

Was a bit iffy on it myself.

I didn't care for how half of the episode took place for hundreds of years off-screen and the Doctor kept living out more and more of his life on this one planet. It started out seeming like it was going down a "Caves of Androzani" route and the Doctor would end up dying during a typical adventure. I really didn't like how the plot kept fast-forwarding. I also think the tossed-off way he mentions that he's the final Doctor didn't make the transition to him being the 13th worth much. It felt needless to me. IDK

On the plus side I really like Clara in this. I felt bad for her throughout and was rooting for her to get back to Smith each time.

The last five minutes were great.

I loved that the Doctor went back to his original look and he saw Amy. Really very nice and made me well up.

Capaldi was awesome for the ten seconds we saw him. I liked how they just had him burst from Smith with no warning. T'was cool.

[Kenny Evil]

tasha lem can't be river. For one thing she dies in this episode and for another this is the first time that she's meet eleven. I can see why people think she's river though given that she can fly the tardis, had been "fighting the psychopath in her all her life" and has an incredibly flirty relationship with the doctor"

[slothian]

Was a bit iffy on it myself.

I didn't care for how half of the episode took place for hundreds of years off-screen and the Doctor kept living out more and more of his life on this one planet. It started out seeming like it was going down a "Caves of Androzani" route and the Doctor would end up dying during a typical adventure. I really didn't like how the plot kept fast-forwarding. I also think the tossed-off way he mentions that he's the final Doctor didn't make the transition to him being the 13th worth much. It felt needless to me. IDK

On the numbering point, I think it was sensible not to hammer it home ad nauseam. Ten really bigged up how death meant death when he wasn't at the end of his cycle and it came off as annoying and petulant -even Eleven had a dig at Ten's vanity by him creating Rose's sex doctor as a means of cheating death. Eleven himself spent the back half of Series 6 trying to avoid his fate but came to accept it with the Brig's death and only found a clever way out through the finale as a means of trying to end his legacy and stop Kovarian & co. coming after him/River.

Thusly, Eleven's stand in Trenzalore is admirable. He's in no rush to die but accepts his newly adopted home as the place where he is destined to die. That he protects the planet for 300+ years is highly admirable, never once expecting his new cycle as a reward. I don't mind it being done offscreen either because ultimately it isn't a key beat to the main story. Still, what better setting for an Eleven Big Finish story when Smith's voice has naturally aged in years from now?

Appropos of nothing, Karen Gillan's overly fake wig made me chuckle and I could tell it wasn't the same girl playing Amelia either - which is fair, as she must be early/mid teens by now.

[dc20willsave]

Wait. If this was the Doctor's last life, why did he start regenerating after getting shot the first time by River back in The Impossible Astronaut? I know, I know, Moffat flying by the seat of his pants but it's still annoying.

My reasoning for the entire Tasha Lem being River. First, Lem backwards to Mel. Second, she shows a fair amount of River activity. Third, I believe that the Papal Mainframe might be an evolution of the CAL computer from Silence in the Library with River eventually using it to acquire a new body. Exact reasoning is that in The Name of the Doctor, River didn't explain how she was able to communicate with the Doctor on Trenzalore or how she could have set up the backdoor.

Overall, I enjoyed the story. It could have been better served if they had a second part. So much of the story is the narrator telling us what's going to happen which is pretty bad story telling. The Time Lords are kind of idiots for wanting the Doctor to use his name as their beacon to get out of hiding whereever they are (Omega's universe maybe?). Still, it was very emotional and I love Capaldi already.

[damndirtyape]

Was a bit iffy on it myself.

I didn't care for how half of the episode took place for hundreds of years off-screen and the Doctor kept living out more and more of his life on this one planet. It started out seeming like it was going down a "Caves of Androzani" route and the Doctor would end up dying during a typical adventure. I really didn't like how the plot kept fast-forwarding. I also think the tossed-off way he mentions that he's the final Doctor didn't make the transition to him being the 13th worth much. It felt needless to me. IDK

On the numbering point, I think it was sensible not to hammer it home ad nauseam. Ten really bigged up how death meant death when he wasn't at the end of his cycle and it came off as annoying and petulant -even Eleven had a dig at Ten's vanity by him creating Rose's sex doctor as a means of cheating death. Eleven himself spent the back half of Series 6 trying to avoid his fate but came to accept it with the Brig's death and only found a clever way out through the finale as a means of trying to end his legacy and stop Kovarian & co. coming after him/River.

Thusly, Eleven's stand in Trenzalore is admirable. He's in no rush to die but accepts his newly adopted home as the place where he is destined to die. That he protects the planet for 300+ years is highly admirable, never once expecting his new cycle as a reward. I don't mind it being done offscreen either because ultimately it isn't a key beat to the main story. Still, what better setting for an Eleven Big Finish story when Smith's voice has naturally aged in years from now?

Appropos of nothing, Karen Gillan's overly fake wig made me chuckle and I could tell it wasn't the same girl playing Amelia either - which is fair, as she must be early/mid teens by now.

Liked the episode but didn't love it. Having said that I agree with just about everything Slothian said. Matt was Excellent as always

His really old age make up was really good. Loved how quick he regenerated into Capaldi. Wanted more of Capaldi but understand this is always the way and can't wait for the new season to begin. Need to watch again and pause the bit with the new flying design of the Daleks at the end. They looked pretty cool on first glance. Damn they were fast.

[greenelou]

Made me simultaneously miss Matt Smith like crazy and fall in love with Peter Capaldi!

[Donomark]

On the numbering point, I think it was sensible not to hammer it home ad nauseam. Ten really bigged up how death meant death when he wasn't at the end of his cycle and it came off as annoying and petulant -even Eleven had a dig at Ten's vanity by him creating Rose's sex doctor as a means of cheating death. Eleven himself spent the back half of Series 6 trying to avoid his fate but came to accept it with the Brig's death and only found a clever way out through the finale as a means of trying to end his legacy and stop Kovarian & co. coming after him/River.

Thusly, Eleven's stand in Trenzalore is admirable. He's in no rush to die but accepts his newly adopted home as the place where he is destined to die. That he protects the planet for 300+ years is highly admirable, never once expecting his new cycle as a reward. I don't mind it being done offscreen either because ultimately it isn't a key beat to the main story. Still, what better setting for an Eleven Big Finish story when Smith's voice has naturally aged in years from now?

Appropos of nothing, Karen Gillan's overly fake wig made me chuckle and I could tell it wasn't the same girl playing Amelia either - which is fair, as she must be early/mid teens by now.

Fair point. It's more of a personal hang up than a genuine writing problem.

I did think it was funny how both the 11th Doctor and his original companion were wig wearing at the time. And oh yeah, young Amelia was clearly a different girl.

Looks like Moffat really agrees with Dan in how they both disagree with Ten's/RTD's approach to regeneration.

[Dan]

And oh yeah, young Amelia was clearly a different girl.

That made me blink, until I realized Caitlin would be a teenager by now and couldn't reasonably still play young Amelia. However, the girl they brought in was clearly blond,not redheaded.

I would like to give a plea for fannish tolerance. (Not here, just in general.) It's never been more clear to me than recently, and especially in the past 24 hours, how many new fans have come on board in the past few years. This is the first regeneration for a significant chunk of fandom, and there is wailing and gnashing of teeth. If you're a new fan, welcome aboard, and you will make it through this. In a few months we'll see what the new Doctor brings. Lots of you will like him, some of you won't. It happens. The show continues regardless, and hopefully you will still enjoy it like you do now. As for longtime fans, remember that you had a first regeneration once too, and you made it through, so please try not to shout down fans who are having a tough time with Smith leaving.

[Kenny Evil]

I seem to like this episode a lot more than a lot of people. I thought it was a great send off for Smith and a great way for the eleventh to spend his life, fighting monsters and fixing toys. It'll be interesting to see if they carry on with the fairy tale angle for twelve or if they go with a new approach.

[Stavros]

Anyone want to take a stab at the Doctor's age now? 1200ish, plus 300 plus what, maybe 300-500 by the time Clara gets back the second time? Could well be clocking in at around 2000 now, with Matt Smith's Doctor accounting for over half of it.

I did like how visually they seemed to base the Doctor's ageing makeup on previous actors, especially 5 and 6. At least I think I saw hints of that.

[Venneh]

I thought he looked like Hartnell at the very end, which I appreciated.

[Dan]

I thought he looked like Hartnell at the very end, which I appreciated.

His performance was very Hartnellesque at the end as well, with the mix of crabbiness and delight pretty much spot-on.

[Missy]

At one point he was wearing Hartnell or Troughton's pants.

As for his age, I'm guessing he's now 2000.

[Donomark]

I would like to give a plea for fannish tolerance. (Not here, just in general.) It's never been more clear to me than recently, and especially in the past 24 hours, how many new fans have come on board in the past few years. This is the first regeneration for a significant chunk of fandom, and there is wailing and gnashing of teeth. If you're a new fan, welcome aboard, and you will make it through this. In a few months we'll see what the new Doctor brings. Lots of you will like him, some of you won't. It happens. The show continues regardless, and hopefully you will still enjoy it like you do now. As for longtime fans, remember that you had a first regeneration once too, and you made it through, so please try not to shout down fans who are having a tough time with Smith leaving.

This is the first regen I've seen after watching the Doctor's run from beginning to end as it was happening in real time. Personally I feel very melancholic, and it still hasn't fully set in yet. Whenever thinking back to that last scene, my brain can't reconcile the great writing with the heavy emotion. DAMN YOU INTERNET AGE FICTION!

[Mr Mockery]

I liked it a lot. Smith was nothing short of brilliant as he always is. Even in weaker stories he elevates the material through his performance. I'm glad that they sorted the whole regeneration thing so people might stop banging on about it. I thought the whole issue of the Doctor's mortality was handled far better than in The End of Time (which wouldn't be difficult) Although I dare say that this is because Smith is a better actor than Tennant.

Of course it isn't the greatest regeneration story ever made. That's The Caves of Androzani and always will be.

[Dan]

I liked it a lot. Smith was nothing short of brilliant as he always is. Even in weaker stories he elevates the material through his performance. I'm glad that they sorted the whole regeneration thing so people might stop banging on about it. I thought the whole issue of the Doctor's mortality was handled far better than in The End of Time (which wouldn't be difficult) Although I dare say that this is because Smith is a better actor than Tennant.

Of course it isn't the greatest regeneration story ever made. That's The Caves of Androzani and always will be.

[Davedevil]

I would like to give a plea for fannish tolerance. (Not here, just in general.) It's never been more clear to me than recently, and especially in the past 24 hours, how many new fans have come on board in the past few years. This is the first regeneration for a significant chunk of fandom, and there is wailing and gnashing of teeth. If you're a new fan, welcome aboard, and you will make it through this. In a few months we'll see what the new Doctor brings. Lots of you will like him, some of you won't. It happens. The show continues regardless, and hopefully you will still enjoy it like you do now. As for longtime fans, remember that you had a first regeneration once too, and you made it through, so please try not to shout down fans who are having a tough time with Smith leaving.

This is the first regen I've seen after watching the Doctor's run from beginning to end as it was happening in real time. Personally I feel very melancholic, and it still hasn't fully set in yet. Whenever thinking back to that last scene, my brain can't reconcile the great writing with the heavy emotion. DAMN YOU INTERNET AGE FICTION!

Same here Don. I got into DW late-2011, and I always had the feeling that Smith was going to be my Doctor. And now he is, so saying goodbye to him is so hard but ultimately I'm at peace now.

Now, to get into Eleven's expanded universe stuff. This week they just fixed the problem I've had when they released that Doctor Who comic special written by Paul Cornell. I think it's a great shame that he never wrote an episode for Eleven.

[Dan]

Now, to get into Eleven's expanded universe stuff. This week they just fixed the problem I've had when they released that Doctor Who comic special written by Paul Cornell. I think it's a great shame that he never wrote an episode for Eleven.

I hadn't realized that. Yeah, it's a shame Cornell never wrote anything for Smith onscreen. I'm hearing good things about this newest annual, and Lord knows there's a lot of expanded universe stuff, and some of it is quite good.

[Koete]

I thought that how Eleven spent his last days was the perfect "end" for The Doctor, but that it was overshadowed by Moffat trying to wrap up his overarch and give callbacks to every bit of Eleven's tenure. It was basically the last ten minutes of "The End of Time" stretched out over an hour and Moffat isn't even leaving. I've been disappointed with Moffat's focus on a big, connected story superseding telling good, individual stories since Series 6, and having a perfect regeneration story get buried by it might be the biggest disappointment.

[Richard Paterson]

Just watched Time of the Doctor for the second time, and I liked it a lot more. On the day, it didn't really seem to fit together very well, but this time I just lapped it up. Maybe it was knowing where it was going that helped?

As much as I'm looking forward to Capaldi, I am totally going to miss Matt Smith. He nailed the part from day one for me, and was absolutely superb in this, particularly in his relationships with Handles and Barnable.

Only thing I didn't really like was Tasha Lem - she seemed like she was meant to be River, but wasn't, and it seemed odd to me that she would still be around for the whole of the Doctor's stay on Christmas.

[Mr Mockery]

I think Time of the Doctor is a grower. With time and distance I think it'll be thought of much higher.

I'm always intrigued by initial fan reaction to episodes knowing that opinions often shift with time. Fans at the time hated The Deadly Assassin for instance where it's now regarded as a classic. I'm fascinated to find out how these episodes are going to be viewed in 10 years time.

[Dan]

Yeah, initial reactions tend to swing very strongly, and a little distance is frequently needed. I'm hearing a lot of hate, and almost as much "BEST EPISODE EVAR", but without a lot of reasoning behind it. A lot of the hate seems to be more towards Moff and people being tired of all the tiresome things he does. After a while I'm sure we'll all meet in the middle.

[Mr Mockery]

Could well be. There are some stories however where opinion never changes. I'm sure we can all agree that The Horns of Nimon is a load of old nonsense. What separates people is whether or not they find it enjoyable nonsense.