Episode 1141 - Flickchart Forum: Star Wars


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The Flickchart Forum returns to chart how the Star Wars franchise has gone from having an obvious worst movie 40 years ago to a less obvious worst movie after the release of eight more movies since the original trilogy. Ian Wilson is joined by Michael David Sims and Dan Toland to go over the three trilogies of The Skywalker Saga and the two Star Wars Stories from the late 2010s. Is the obvious film the best? Is the prequel trilogy responsible for the worst film? And if the answer to both questions is yes, what is the order of all the films in between? [ 2:25:29 ]
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  • Missy changed the title to Episode 1141 - Flickchart Forum: Star Wars

Great episode, gang! I definitely mirrored Dan’s list the closest, but it was great to hear all of your takes on these films - especially Ian's, since to date I had no idea his thoughts on this franchise as a whole.

While its on my mind, I just want to say that I think it is a testament to the character of all three of and this community that I felt no hesitation or concern listening to this, considering I have completely shut myself off from Star Wars discourse for the past 5 years due to the overwhelming toxicity and negativity. Whilst I continue to watch and enjoy new Star Wars content I actively avoid the various communities and discussions that I used to love to be a part of. I appreciate you all being level-headed, respectful, and just plain decent people so I could finally enjoy some Star Wars discussion content. Thanks to all three of you (but especially @Missy) for fostering a community and content that I never feel anxious or hesitant to engage with. Although I'm not very active here (joined 13 years ago and still hold rank of "The New Guy") earth-2 definitely feels like my safe space, lol. 

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Thank you for the kind words! To be honest, this was the first time I've spoken about The Last Jedi and The Rise of Skywalker pretty much anywhere because the toxic backlash to the films online (not here) made me keep my mouth shut and pushed me away from Star Wars fandom, so it was good to sit down with Ian and Dan to cover all the movies.

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Same, Star Wars has gotten far too toxic to engage with in general, I'm glad it's always fun with E-2. Great episode, y'all.

A friend and I recently used this site to rank the films, and this is how my list shaped up.

  1. The Last Jedi
  2. The Force Awakens
  3. Return of the Jedi
  4. Rogue One
  5. The Empire Strikes Back
  6. Revenge of the Sith
  7. A New Hope
  8. Solo
  9. The Rise of Skywalker
  10. Atack of the Clones
  11. The Phantom Menace

It's probably blasphemous to put the original film that low, but it's a bit dry for a kid who'd already watched blockbusters that came out decades after. The ones that came after were the ones that had more of an emotional connection. 

The sequels are definitely my era of SW though, and I'll be really curious if there's gonna be a reappraisal for them on the level of what the prequels are getting. I dread that its target audience being much more online than the prequels' demographic was when they came out, changes things somewhat.

In hindsight, they kinda shot themselves in the foot by telling a story that short. The prequels are getting a lot of love because the Clone Wars and all the other EU material that filled in the gaps (along with not letting fan outcry shape the story). While it was a pleasant surprise that TLJ carried on immediately after TFA, it leaves us with a trio that don't share a scene until the final movie. I adore those three, but maybe sticking too closely to the trilogy format hindered them. I'm really curious about their future plans with Rey at least.

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Listened to this twice! T'was interesting hearing Ian's thought on the Star Wars franchise.

I was expecting just a *bit* more elaboration on the two most controversial sequel movies (Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker), but that's what different opinions are for. For my part regarding The Last Jedi, I agree with Dan that it's potentially the smartest Star Wars movie. I think it's inclination for catharsis denial holds it back, as many times the movie gears up for something cool it pulls back as a swerve. The Holdo maneuver is a SW CLASSIC moment, and Mark Hamill's acting is a franchise performance best, but did Luke really need to die? Like, what even killed him? Force strain? Stuff like that made the movie imperfect for myself.

Rise of Skywalker is just embarrassing though. The fact that someone has to stand in an exact spot in a field and hold up a thing to match a visual of a thing is about as great of screenwriting as "Somehow Palpatine returned". I agree that it's cool seeing the three mains actually be together, and I do like Ben Solo at the end, but ye gods. 

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My perspective is that it was the strain that killed Luke. He had completely cut himself off from The Force for years, to the point he didn't even sense Han's murder. So the big, showy act to distract Ben was too much for his heart to take.

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On 5/6/2023 at 8:36 PM, Missy said:

Thank you for the kind words! To be honest, this was the first time I've spoken about The Last Jedi and The Rise of Skywalker pretty much anywhere because the toxic backlash to the films online (not here) made me keep my mouth shut and pushed me away from Star Wars fandom, so it was good to sit down with Ian and Dan to cover all the movies.

It was good to hear you and @Dan get back into talking about Star Wars, I have the half-dozen podcasts where you covered the original trilogy and prequels saved to my hard drive. I don't hate Episode II like you guys do - I enjoyed all 11 of the films quite a bit - but it was fun to listen to.

The toxic fandom hate of Episode VIII is ridiculous. As I said before, I think people were imagining SJW stuff that was not there.

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Finally got to it today and enjoyed it immensely! I was pleasantly surprised that

Spoiler

a) You ended up covering them best-to-worst, rather than vice versa and

b) That the three of you enjoyed the films on the whole as much as you did. I somehow got the notion that Star Wars was a essentially a half-good, half-bad film franchise and that that was the received wisdom. Then again, only the Sith deal in absolutes.

 

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