Civil War *SPOILERS!*

[S-T]

I picked up issue #1 the other day.

This is a storyline that has been overdue for a long time. People "hate and fear" mutants because of their power. But how is it different if you get your power from a suit of armor or from being hit with cosmic rays? That never made sense to me.

It will be really interesting to see how this turns out.

[Missy]

I'm stoked for this (the thread at the Oratory should prove that). In fact, I'm so excited, Jen and I will be running special Civil War themed episodes of The Show.

[JackFetch]

I really liked the first issue. This could be the best crossover story in a long time for Marvel. The whole thing with Cap was interesting, and the ending made me excited for the next one. For some reason I think this is the story that they are going to bring back Nick Fury.

P.S. Iron Man is a dick

[Missy]

This book is awesome, and I can only see it getting better. Mark Millar is great at handling political issues because he doesn't take the cheap way out, and respects his readers enough to not dumb everything down and allows them the freedom to decided who's side they're on.

Look at Superman: Red Son. Superman could have been made into the "evil" Russian and Luthor the "great" American, but they weren't. Millar avoided that easy cliché and turned these two characters on their heads; we had to look at them not as our Superman and our Luthor in different clothes, but as two new characters sans the history and expectations they carry as baggage.

With the slate wiped clean and their new personalities firmly established, Millar forced us to say, "Okay, I agree with Superman here and here, but not here. And Lex might be kind of dickish, but he is right here, here and here, but wrong here." The author left it up to the reader to choose who was right and who was wrong -- and if a "right" and "wrong" could even be established, all things considered.

And that's what I'm hoping for here with Civil War. In the end, no matter the outcome, we should agree and disagree with both Iron Man and Captain America on certain points of the SRA issue, because only then will Millar have written a fair and balanced book.

As for where I stand: allow me to quote something I said at another forum.

See, I'm looking at this from the "common man" point of view.

This is a government job with vacation time, a pension plan and great pay. They're willing to give me free on-the-job training; and they're telling me it's okay to hop around in my costume, use my powers and punch people in the face.

Now if I'm a normal (though, super) guy with a shitty nine to five who moonlights as a superhero, like Peter Parker, this is an attractive deal because my superhero life will no longer conflict with my real life... because this would be my real life! No more stumbling into work at 9:00a because Rhino decided to rob the bank at 4:00a. No more having to explain broken bones and bruised cheeks to coworkers. No more skipping out on work to stop Sandman from terrorizing the local surfers. All of that is erased with a single stroke.

What... what? I have to tell the government my name? You know what that means? They'll know who my family members are, and, presumably, will protect them should my identity become compromised.

That's all I have to give up. That's it. And you know what else? SHIELD knows who a good number of the heroes are, anyways. So it's no big deal.

My name is Michael David Sims. Give me my badge, please.

[A.Logan]

CIVIL WAR: I'm with Yoda.

Thought it was appropriate, but really, I'm with the Cap, and beyond that, I have an attachment to Wolverine, so wherever he goes, I will be there.

The first issue, which I got today, was damn awesome. I wanted to get some of the back and side story, but the dude didn't really want to help me out much, so I bought my comic and left. I still want the back/side stories though, if possible could someone give me a title to start with?

[JackFetch]

CIVIL WAR: I'm with Yoda.

Thought it was appropriate, but really, I'm with the Cap, and beyond that, I have an attachment to Wolverine, so wherever he goes, I will be there.

The first issue, which I got today, was damn awesome. I wanted to get some of the back and side story, but the dude didn't really want to help me out much, so I bought my comic and left. I still want the back/side stories though, if possible could someone give me a title to start with?

The Spider-Man pre Civil War stories are a must read. Anything with the big Civil War thing on the cover will work. The ones where Peter Parker and Tony Stark go to Washington is where the Civil War story starts.

[Missy]

Logan, grab New Avengers: The Illuminati and Amazing Spider-Man #529-531. Those are the most important books leading into Civil War #1. However, Fantastic Four #536-537 will seemingly come into play by Civil War #3, so you might want to grab those as well.

Here's the Civil War checklist:

- Civil War #1-7

- Civil War: Front Line #1-10 (biweekly)

- Civil War: X-Men #1-4

- Civil War: Young Avengers & Runaways #1-4

- Amazing Spider-Man #532-538

- Black Panther #18

- Cable / Deadpool #30-32

- Captain America #22-24

- Daily Bugle: Civil War Edition (will only cost 50 cents)

- Fantastic Four #538-543

- Heroes for Hire #1-3

- Iron Man #13-14

- Marvel Spotlight: Millar / McNiven (skip it)

- Ms. Marvel #6-8

- New Avengers #21-25

- Punisher: War Journal #1-3

- She-Hulk #8

- Thunderbolts #103-105

- Wolverine #42-47

- X-Factor #8-9

The most important of these are Civil War, Civil War: Front Line, Amazing Spider-Man, Captain America, Iron Man and New Avengers.

Three brand new titles will spin directly out of the event:

- Ant-Man

- Heroes for Hire

- Punisher: War Journal

[A.Logan]

Thanks a whole lot, I'm heading back over there tomorrow or Friday. I'll see if they have the issues, because the first issue...damn damn damn.

[Missy]

Thanks a whole lot, I'm heading back over there tomorrow or Friday. I'll see if they have the issues, because the first issue...damn damn damn.

Chances are very high that New Avengers: The Illuminati will be sold out, but the other books should be pretty easy to find.

[S-T]

What is the difference between Civil War: Front Line and Civil War?

[Missy]

Civil War is a seven-part monthly series which focuses on the heroes and their infighting. Lots of big battles can be expected.

Civil War: Front Line, on the other hand, is a 10-issue biweekly tie-in which follows reporters Ben Urich and Sally Floyd as they embed themselves with the heroes. Urich will be tied to the Iron Man / pro-SRA camp, while Sally is with Captain America's anti-SRA group. It's been reported that writer Paul Jenkins has been given "absolute carte blanche to take on the political landscape as it exists in America and all around the world."

Whereas we can expect to see superhero battles galore in Civil War, the 10-part Front Line seems like it might feature less fights and a headier take on the whole situation.

[JackFetch]

****Spoiler****

Wolverine 42

Logan to Luke Cage "Cause there's registration, and there's registration. Few years back, a few decades actually, I had some friends back in Germany. Had."

He then said Sentinels, to mutants, are like burning crosses to black people. A symbol of opression and bigotry.

Amazing stuff. I can't wait to see where Civil War is going.

[ragernok2002]

I liked logan's line about being an avenger for months and now finally having something to avenge

[JackFetch]

She-Hulk #8 is a Civil War tie in. It shows what happened to the other members of the New Warriors, and shows that the government has been working on technology to combat the super powered humans. Not really essential unless you want the whole Civil War story.

[JackFetch]

I just finished reading Civil War: Frontline #1, and I have some good and bad things to say about it.

Good: It's not just 1 story, it's 3. The first being the Civil War story being told through 2 reporter's point of views. The second about Speedball, and what happened to him after the explosion. And the third is a short poem that features Spider-man.

If you are a Spider-Man or Iron Man fan, then you'll want to read this.

Bad: They are turning the Superhuman Registration Act into a Liberals versus Conservative thing. I don't want politics in my comic book. I read them to get away from that stuff. Just because I am against it doesn't make me a Liberal, or if I supported it, it wouldn't make me a Republican.

Overall, it's a good book, that shows what a hard time Spider-Man is having right now.

[S-T]

Since conservatives generally opposed restrictions on gun ownership it would make sense that a good number of conservatives would oppose registration of super powers if those powers actually existed. Gun Owners of America would have a super powers department, for example.

I think "superhero registration", if meta-human powers existed in the real world, would split both conservatives and liberals right down the middle. Sarah Brady and gun control types vs. civil libertarians on the Left, and national security types vs. 2nd Amendment types on the other.

[JackFetch]

Since conservatives generally opposed restrictions on gun ownership it would make sense that a good number of conservatives would oppose registration of super powers if those powers actually existed. Gun Owners of America would have a super powers department, for example.

They are saying the opposite. They are saying that conservatives want to "reign in" the people with powers and Liberals think it is the government taking away people's freedoms.

[Chops]

Since conservatives generally opposed restrictions on gun ownership it would make sense that a good number of conservatives would oppose registration of super powers if those powers actually existed. Gun Owners of America would have a super powers department, for example.

They are saying the opposite. They are saying that conservatives want to "reign in" the people with powers and Liberals think it is the government taking away people's freedoms.

I never understood that in this storyline. In real life the conservative patform is about as little government as possible, where as the Liberal platform thinks it's the governments job to tell you what's allowed and what's not.

[Missy]

Has this actually been said in an issue, or are you assuming this because CW#1 featured Bush on the last page? (I've yet to read Frontline #1 and CW#2, so pardon me if it's covered in there.)

[Missy]

Spiderman outs himself to the press

NEW YORK (AFP) - For a comic book hero, it's the ultimate taboo.

In the latest edition of the Marvel comic "Civil War" on sale, Spiderman does the unthinkable and removes his Spidey mask to publicly reveal his hidden identity.

"I'm proud of who I am, and I'm here right now to prove it," the legendary webslinger tells a press conference called in New York's Times Square, before pulling off his mask and standing before the massed ranks of reporters as newspaper photographer Peter Parker.

"Any questions?" Parker asks in the final panel of the issue, amid a barrage of camera flashes.

In a statement, Marvel trumpeted the revelation as "arguably the most shocking event in comic book history."

The seven-issue "Civil War" series, launched in May, sees Marvel's writers taking on the topical issue of civil liberties.

Following a showdown between a group of superheroes and supervillains in which hundreds of innocent civilians are killed, the government passes the Super-Hero Registration Act, requiring all superheroes to reveal their identities and register as "living weapons of mass destruction."

Marvel's roster of invincible crime fighters is split into two bitterly opposed factions, with one camp -- championed by the likes of Spiderman -- in favour of the new law and the other, including Captain America and his ilk, refusing to relinquish anonymity.

"It's about which side you are on and why you think you are right," said Marvel Comics editor-in-chief Joe Quesada.

[Chops]

To me, Spiderman revealing himself isn't that big of a deal, per say. Underneath the mask, he's just a regular guy. He's not recognizable, he's not famous, he's not anything except the guy under Spidermans mask. It's not like if Batman took his mask off, where everyone would immeadiately recognize him as Bruce Wayne.

[Missy]

To me, Spiderman revealing himself isn't that big of a deal, per say. Underneath the mask, he's just a regular guy. He's not recognizable, he's not famous, he's not anything except the guy under Spidermans mask. It's not like if Batman took his mask off, where everyone would immeadiately recognize him as Bruce Wayne.

Haven't read the book yet, but chances are high that he said his name too. For the sake of argument, let's say Peter only showed his face and never said his name: do you honestly think Jonah isn't going to run Parker's name?

Either way, Peter Parker is out there.

Also here's an out: The Other. Who says the "Peter Parker" that was reborn in that storyline is the real deal? Maybe the one who revealed himself is a clone-like thing, and when the real Spider-Man comes back he can be like, "Uh... I'm not Peter Parker." And to prove it the fake Peter can be on stage with Spider-Man at the same time. Or something like that.

[Chops]

To me, Spiderman revealing himself isn't that big of a deal, per say. Underneath the mask, he's just a regular guy. He's not recognizable, he's not famous, he's not anything except the guy under Spidermans mask. It's not like if Batman took his mask off, where everyone would immeadiately recognize him as Bruce Wayne.

Haven't read the book yet, but chances are high that he said his name too. For the sake of argument, let's say Peter only showed his face and never said his name: do you honestly think Jonah isn't going to run Parker's name?

Either way, Peter Parker is out there.

Oh yeah, JJ is going to have a feild day with it. I think it's similiar to in Spiderman 2, when he lost his mask on the train. It's a big deal and it isn't at the same time. Seeing a superhero underneath his mask is always big, but at the same time, if I lived in that universe me response would be something like,

"Holy shit! Spiderman took off his mask!"

"Who is he?"

"I don't know, just some guy."

[Missy]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Jonah is lost for words, and / or begins to change his anti-Spider-Man tune. Put it this way:

- Jonah knows that Parker is on the straight and narrow.

- He knows the shit he's been through, and, despite that, fights the good fight. Whereas those who've suffered less trauma have become murderers and masked villains. By all rights Peter should have taken his rage out on the world a million times over, but he hasn't.

- Peter continued to work for the paper while JJJ ripped his alter ego at every turn. This means he's a hardworking fellow, which Jonah respects.

Combine all that, and Triple J is going to have to reevaluate his editorial stance.

[JackFetch]

Has this actually been said in an issue, or are you assuming this because CW#1 featured Bush on the last page? (I've yet to read Frontline #1 and CW#2, so pardon me if it's covered in there.)

They say it in Frontline #1. The reporters are on opposite sides of the issue. The female reporter makes an analogy about the constitution being in one corner, and misinformation and paranoia in the other. It's pretty obvious in this book that they are tying it in with real life political issues.

About the Spidey unmasking thing. It's a stupid thing to do. Everything good about Spider-Man has to do with him trying to keep his 2 lives seperate. Even if he didn't give his name, alot of people will recognize him as a famous news photog, or as being married to a supermodel. I agree that they will say that this isn't the real Peter.