Episode 631

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As Dan and Mike finish their look at the Star Wars movies, will Revenge of the Sith cause them to lose their will to live, will they scream "Noooooooooo" at the sky when midi-chlorians return, will rage turn them into red-eyed beasts, or, perhaps, is there hope that they actually enjoy the final prequel entry? [ 2:50:54 || 82.4 MB ]

To listen, click here: http://www.earth-2.net/theshow/episodes/e2ts_631.mp3

[dc20willsave]

Been waiting a year to post this:

[Missy]

Love it!

[Dan]

That is awesome.

And entirely accurate.

[Gareth]

[James D.]

12 minutes in and I hear Dan claim Murder-Set-Pieces is better than Episode II.

BOLD words, sir.

[Dan]

I may have been overcome by the moment.

[Davedevil]

The thing with Anakin and Obi-Wan swinging their lightsabers, not doing anything was explained on Tumblr. Apparently it's a fencing thing where you're daring the other to strike first. And because this is a post on this forums about Tumblr, "OMG THE FEELS"

I think that the pregnancy, the stress from finding out that Anakin did what he did, getting Force Choked and the environment of Mustafar was what led to Padme dying. Of course, I'm not an advanced medical droid so what do I know?

Anyways, great episode guys. I need to watch this again; I'm pretty sure I've only seen it once, and that was...8 years ago. Man.

[damndirtyape]

I agree the fight between Anakin and obi wan should have been reduced to make it tighter and it could have been the best in the series. It's not the over the top lightsaber moves or the swinging around on cables still trying to fight, that annoys me. It's when the started running at each other trying to do some kind of lame high kick that made me scream. These are not two jedi's fighting.

[dc20willsave]

Slight confession: I think Revenge of the Sith is a better film than Return of the Jedi and is probably my third favorite film in the series.

[KnightWing]

Thoughts:

-On the note of using X-Wings:

The Rebels actually were using top-of-the-line starfighters whenever possible. It's part of the contrast between the Rebels and the Empire. The Empire put thousands of pilots into crappy fighters with no shields or hyperdrive that got killed in one shot, while the Rebels put mere dozens of pilots into top-of-the-line fighters (provided they had access to them). Money wasn't as much of an issue for the Rebels (the royal family of Alderaan was part of their leadership), but personell was.

That said, though, the X-Wing's immediate predecessor, the Z-95 Headhunter, has shown up in The Clone Wars. It even makes the X-Wing engine and laser sounds.

-ROTS takes place over something like nine days. Padmé's bump seems to be different sizes because her wardrobe was specifically designed to make her bump more or less noticeable. This was a specific note from Lucas, as he figured Padmé wouldn't want her pregnancy to be public.

-I think Padmé is a pretty horrible character overall. She's fine in TPM, but after that she just starts being idiotic and makes stupid emotional decisions. Leia was a victim of circumstance; Padmé actively put herself into bad situations.

-ROTS's final duel is nowhere close to the best duel in my mind. It's incredibly intense, but 90% of the actual moves the characters are doing is utter nonsense. Dan, you mentioned that there wasn't any ballet ridiculousness; actually, there is, but it's so fast you normally don't notice. Every time I watch the duel, I have to shut my reality brain completely off and purposely not watch what they're actually doing with their sabers and their hands. It's almost the epitome of style over substance.

-There are a thousand legitimate medical reasons for a woman to die during childbirth. The fact that Padmé died was not a problem. The fact that they justified it via heartbreak is the problem.

-I like ROTJ better than ROTS specifically because I care about the main character in ROTJ, but I don't in ROTS. When your main character more resembles a whining three-year-old than anything else (and the central romance makes no sense), you know something's wrong.

[KnightWing]

Oh, also, every single time I've watched ROTS, I've always interpreted Obi-Wan's "I'm so sorry" as "I'm so sorry that all this has happened, what with your husband becoming evil and killing children, you now having to carry his children and raise them in a world this twisted, etc."

[Doc Whom]

I don't think Dan's judgment has ever been so lacking as when he claims that Obi Wan and Anakin's final battle is the best lightsabre duel of the whole saga.

Yes, the choreography is great. Yes, the accompanying music is wild. Yes, the setting is spectacular. Yes, this is two people who once loved each other now trying to kill each other as the galaxy hangs in the balance.

But hello!!! Where's the in-fight banter?

[Gareth]

Mr. Plinkett perfectly points out exactly why I don't like Revenge of the Sith in the third part of his review. Also why Return of the Jedi is orders of magnitude better than Revenge of the Sith. Seriously, if you haven't seen this review watch it. This final part, I think brilliantly sums up why all three films (including Sith) are mere faint shadows of the greatness of the original trilogy. I can't begrudge you for enjoying Sith, but I don't understand how you could make the argument that it is a better film than Revenge of the Sith.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRUMt9-Oig0

My favorite point he makes is that is 'richness' of the original films is lost in the production values of the prequels.

[SuaveStar]

If Anakin didn't kill Count Dooku, The Emperor would have likely strangled him, on the way to prison. It seemed like Vader is the only Jedi in the films to use the force to strangle people, so it's possible the emperor taught it to him.

Also, the theatre scene with the big "Join us" discussion, after hearing your thoughts, I would have thought it would have been awesome if the Saw theme played, as Anakin found out that Darth Sidious was behind saving him from every problem he's faced in the first two films, such as bribing Qui Gon to find Anakin and win him away from slavery, and fixing the race so Anakin would never lose. Anythings better than "Oh, you're my son. I left a lot of you around the galaxy hoping one would be a Jedi. "

[KnightWing]

If Anakin didn't kill Count Dooku, The Emperor would have likely strangled him, on the way to prison. It seemed like Vader is the only Jedi in the films to use the force to strangle people, so it's possible the emperor taught it to him.

Luke choked a Gamorrean guard in the beginning of ROTJ. I think it's just something force-users can do. But I agree, Palpatine would have silenced Dooku.

[Stavros]

Great episode guys! Few notes-

-Grevious is a toy, but I'll speak up for him because I was introduced to him in the 2D Clone Wars series prior to Revenge of the Sith. You see him stalking and killing Jedi and really being set up more as a badass. It's not up on film so I can't blame Mike for not getting into him because he's not as strong here, but I do see him a little differently. His background is actually a little similar to Thrawn, in that he's a powerful general from a border world who's potential was realised by Sideous.

-On the cyborg front, Anakin already has a cyborg hand, so Grevious isn't the first nod we've seen in that direction.

-It was Plagueis who created the life, not Sideous, so he's not really the father of the Skywalker line in any sense. I think he might have helped in some way but Plagueis was the one who did it as far as I know.

- I like the idea that force lightning ages the person it hits, it might explain why Vader is so far gone despite basically only being about 45. I mean, sure he was burned but his face under the makeup looks over 60. However if that were the case then Luke would look older than Yoda at the end of Jedi because he's blasted forever with that stuff, I mean it's straight through other scenes and advert breaks.

[Flashfan1]

I'm so glad you guys didn't tear this apart like TPM and AotC. I love this movie!

[SuaveStar]

I think when Mace shoots the lightning back at The Emperor it's supposed to show his true form and age, as it's likely possible the emperor has lived for a long time, using the life saving technique his master taught him decades ago.

Also, I think Mike went to far into the death thing, by asking C3PO to get a big hero moment, I get that ou I think they should have just done something better than just say "Padme died of a broken heart" if it was implied that Vader choking her put her into rushed labour, through a shock to the system. Anythings better than just saying "She lost her love."

I think the main issue with the film is them realising how much they have to cram in, to lead up to episode 4, and how forced everything was, in that sense. That was the real main criticism from me, none of the set up stuff felt natural, and just rushed, like they finished most of the shooting of the film before anyone asked how the films will link up.

[KnightWing]

I think when Mace shoots the lightning back at The Emperor it's supposed to show his true form and age, as it's likely possible the emperor has lived for a long time, using the life saving technique his master taught him decades ago.

There was a one-off totally-out-of-all-continuity comic in Star Wars: Visionaries that suggested that. Basically, it showed a very old-looking Palpatine going into a secret room in the Senate building, getting swallowed by a gigantic caterpillar/leech thing, then killing it from the inside and walking out of its corpse looking much younger.

[Dan]

Re: Padme dying because of the Force choke, or the heat from the lava, or whatever: anything would have worked. But the droid said, straight out, that there was NOTHING physically wrong with her.

[SuaveStar]

Good episode, I feel like everyone else has covered everything else to do with this film, so I'll just reiterate my major complaint; they spend the last half hour putting the toys in order for Episode 4, and that's all I will remember this for, Lucas basically setting the toys up for everything to happen in Episode 4.

Some may consider it to be the best Star Wars film, and it is easily the best of the prequel trilogy, but to me, the first thing that always pops into my head whenever thinking of ROTS, is Lucas just getting everything together for A New Hope.

Also, did you mention Yoda meeting Chewbacca, that felt like serious fanboy pleasing crap to me,like "Hey, check it out! Everyone knows everyone else!"so yeah, there's my thoughts on the film.

[Missy]

We mentioned Yoda and Chewbacca in a very offhanded way, but I don't think we ever directly said it was Chewbacca. It was more like a "Yeah, that's who you think it is" kinda of thing.

[kilg%re]

Arrgh now i've had to go back and listen to all of your star wars eps (they're all great BTW) when i promised i wouldn't subscribe to more of your podcasts, i'm running out of hours in the day! and does anyone know if the original versions are still about?

[dc20willsave]

The original versions of the trilogy are hard to find. Your best best is to hit up Thrift Stores and local used video stores and check for it on VHS. I know I saw a boxed set a few weeks back for cheap. Depends on where you look/concentration of people who would donate that sort of thing.