Superman: Man of Steel

[slothian]

Before I read the above, I came out of the screening an hour ago. And there's no point waiting until Comic Reel-lief/reviewing it with Mike & James for this one.

Loved it. It's Superman's Batman Begins. As grounded a film as you can probably get with Kryptonian battles on Earth. Probably won't sit as highly on my list as BB, but that's only because I like Bats a bit more than Supes - time will tell.

Right, time to scroll back up the thread and see who disagrees, as I genuinely haven't been in this thread to avoid spoilers. I'm guessing that dastardly Stavros probably hates it...

[JasonC]

What is the criteria for a Superman movie in your mind

Christopher Reeve and Richard Donner's Superman. And to a lesser extent Superman II.

These - to me - are the Gold Standard.

EDIT: And to a lesser extent, the feel and attitude of the Animated Series.

[slothian]

What is the criteria for a Superman movie in your mind

Christopher Reeve and Richard Donner's Superman. And to a lesser extent Superman II.

These - to me - are the Gold Standard.

EDIT: And to a lesser extent, the feel and attitude of the Animated Series.

So you were after something more like Superman Returns?

[KnightWing]

It's funny; I actually think MOS might be slightly more in line with Superman's character for me than the Donner film, for the sole reason that it portrays Superman as a person rather than a concept/deity.

Don't get me wrong, I think that Superman being as immeasurably "good" as he is is very important, but at the same time he should always be treated like a good person. He needs to be a human that makes all the right decisions (in general, at least), not a god who hovers above all humanity in his perfection.

Superman would say that he's no better than any of us. He just happens to have powers and he uses them to the best of his abilities to help others, just as every person should use their own abilities, great or small. That's why (for me, at least) Superman is an inspirational character: because he chooses to do the right thing when it would be so easy for him to do anything else. The fact that he's mentally "human" is very important, since it means he's going through the same thought processes and making the same kinds of moral choices that we make every single day—which makes his character all the more amazing.

[Koete]

I saw this today and was surprised by how much I liked in it:

- pretty much the entire cast sold their characters, especially Cavill and Adams (Russell Crowe is hit and miss with me, but his Jor-El was one of my favorite aspects of the movie)

- Krypton's society and how it affected Jor-El and Zod was well done

- the Smallville scenes hit the right notes of Clark's youth (not so sure about Jonathan's death, though)

- the first time Clark flies is one of my favorite scenes in a superhero movie

- while it did go into the generic superhero movie fight scene third act, I was more invested than The Avengers because there were characters involved rather than video game henchmen

I could have done without Snyder's zoom-ins (no slo-mo though), fights running too long, the indulgence in destruction, and some stupid lines ("I'm not going to tell you where I live, but I'm from Kansas"), but overall, I would have called it one of the better recent superhero movies. However...

...Superman snapping Zod's neck poisoned the entire movie for me. They were originally going to have him go to the Phantom Zone with everyone else, but apparently Snyder and Goyer found that "unsatisfying." Do you know what else is unsatisfying? Spending almost two and a half hours watching a Superman movie, only for it to end with Superman killing someone, then putting on the Clark Kent glasses like nothing happened. I cannot believe that Snyder and Goyer thought that was a good idea and that DC approved it.

[JasonC]

What is the criteria for a Superman movie in your mind

Christopher Reeve and Richard Donner's Superman. And to a lesser extent Superman II.

These - to me - are the Gold Standard.

EDIT: And to a lesser extent, the feel and attitude of the Animated Series.

So you were after something more like Superman Returns?

Yes. Only better.

I realised something last night. In his own way, Jor-El is as bad as Zod. maybe worse. Zod wants Earth to be Krypton right-the-hell-now. Jor-El is thinking long term; He put the entire Kryptonian genetic repository in his son and sent him here. That means that IF humans and Kryptonians are genetically compatible enough to breed (and I'm sure they are, Jor of the House of El wouldn't have made that kind of mistake) any children would be Kryptonian. And when they have kids, they'll be Kryptonian too.

It may take a few hundred years, but sooner or later Earth will be populated by aliens who were born here.

[KnightWing]

I realised something last night. In his own way, Jor-El is as bad as Zod. maybe worse. Zod wants Earth to be Krypton right-the-hell-now. Jor-El is thinking long term; He put the entire Kryptonian genetic repository in his son and sent him here. That means that IF humans and Kryptonians are genetically compatible enough to breed (and I'm sure they are, Jor of the House of El wouldn't have made that kind of mistake) any children would be Kryptonian. And when they have kids, they'll be Kryptonian too.

It may take a few hundred years, but sooner or later Earth will be populated by aliens who were born here.

Then, by definition, they wouldn't be aliens. I don't know that that's a problem, unless giving humans superpowers is a bad thing.

[Stavros]

Yeah, Jason there is a difference between conquering a planet and exterminating a race and just moving there to repopulate.

I mean, if Mexico conquered the US and killed everyone under El Zoddo it's not the same thing as El Jor El sending his kid over the border to have a better life.

[dc20willsave]

Not only that but we know Kryptonians age at the same speed as us. This means that it would take tens of thousands of years for them to overpopulate humanity and, by that point, no one will notice or care.

That said, did anyone else notice the empty hatch in the scout ship? Three of them had skeletons, 1 was empty.

[Venneh]

The implication I've heard running around is that it might be an in for Supergirl?

[Koete]

Plus, Jor-El told Clark that he was born so that he could make his own choices. Jor-El had to know that one of those could be to not repopulate on Earth.

[KnightWing]

The prequel comic (written partially by Goyer) shows that Kara was on the scout ship that Clark finds in the ice; the open pod was hers. She's either dead or frozen, Captain America-style.

[Missy]

Or she founded Themyscira 20,000 years ago, which is my theory as to how they'll bring in Wonder Woman. Diana won't be born of clay or Zeus or anything like that; she'll be an Earthborn Kryptonian.

[KnightWing]

I think that's going entirely too far. That literally makes Wonder Woman a Superman spin-off. I can't see them actually doing that, especially when Wonder Woman's mythology is so good for story mining.

[JasonC]

You have more faith in Warners or DC then. I can see them do exactly that in order to continue with the dark, gritty and realistic theme.

[Koete]

If That One Moment wasn't in it, I doubt people would be banging the grim and gritty drum.

[KnightWing]

If they want to stay dark and gritty, Greek mythology is pretty much a treasure trove. Don't know why they'd throw that away.

[JasonC]

Greek Mythology is a soap opera. 99.9% of all the problems are caused by the fact that Zeus can't keep it in his pants. Well, maybe 99.5..

[Pan-dub]

Currently sitting in the screen watching the credits feeling utterly delighted =D

[Pan-dub]

And now some more considered thoughts as opposed to unclear gushing:

I came into Man of Steel as someone who never really 'got' Superman. Yeah he chooses to protect Earth instead of crushing it and yeah he can pretty much do everything; I didn't see much appeal in him as a hero compared with a hero like Batman who was an extremely able human with a more psychological background, rather than an alien with cheat codes.

With Man of Steel I can so much more appreciate young Clarke's rationale, motivation and overall appeal as a Superhero. You sympathise for this alien chap coming to terms with what he needs to do and his transformation from troubled, powerful youth to protector. Mr. Cavill's done a pretty good job! His journey was aided by a good investigation into how normal people come to terms with and trusting a terrifyingly strong man in a time of unrest and worry.

Zod was a legitimate threat throughout (him and his gang's entrance scene was brilliant, even if it was very convenient for them to find all the Earth's languages, broadcast frequencies, knowledge of Operating systems and audio formats. And Batman's light-turning-off gun). Was also fun to play 'Spot-Russell-Crowe' - a real treat.

The action sequences were immense and you could feel the weight of every blow. Not sure how some of those soldiers were meant to survive but maybe Mrs. I'm-totally-not-Trinity-in-a-Army-of-Two-mask was holding back in arrogance. I didn't mind the additional SM/Zod brawl ending as I agree that Zod disappearing with the rest of his crew would've ended things too early and felt hollow (even at the film's 13 hour mark).

A few negatives. I was able to completely fill my 'Batman Begins' Bingo card (flashbacks, transformation, dubious killing) and even if everyone knows SM's back story the way it was played out is extremely similar. Killing Zod seemed way too easy, especially if he was meant to be comparable in power levels to the caped crusader...I mean the caped hoper. Amy Adams as Lois Lane had the touch of Katie Holmes about her in terms of believability, but thankfully she didn't drown in a supporting cast.

Also: when did Morpheus get so fat? C'mon stop trying to diet and diet!

All in all a success. Another grounded, believable DC hero movie...which is amazing considering it features a man with laser eyes.

[Koete]

Terence Stamp is awesome.

[JackFetch]

Ok, so I finally saw it. I think we are past the spoiler point now since it's been a couple weeks. If you haven't seen it by now you shouldn't be reading this thread.

I've been a huge Superman fan since I was a kid. I never really thought the Christopher Reeve movies were that good. I actually thought they were hokey and dated. Superman Returns was just a pile of shit. Nobody ever really got who Superman was in my eyes. That's changed now. I absolutely loved Man of Steel. Finally, the Superman I knew was represented on screen without making fun of the source. It wasn't dark and depressing like the trailers led me to believe. Clark was always helping people because that's the right thing to do. He was hopeful that he would be accepted when they found out about him even though Pa, his moral compass, told him that they wouldn't. Yeah, he was bullied, but he saw how using his powers to save his bully softened him. He could have used his powers to humiliate him, but that wouldn't have had the same effect.

The movie was beautiful, and the fight scenes were as epic as the ones in The Avengers. This was Superman not holding back for the first time in a movie.

I'm glad they kept the Smallville stuff to a minimum. Everyone knows the story by now. The tornado scene however, was brilliant. So much emotion and storytelling without anyone saying a word. The Krypton stuff was ok. I felt like they thought it was something they had to do, so they went all the way to Avatar-land with it.

Anyone complaining about how he killed Zod doesn't understand Superman at all. He made his choice, and it was Earth and humanity. Zod was trying to kill humans, so Superman made the only decision he could at the time and snapped his neck.

There are a couple plot holes I do wonder about though. How did the human General know the word Krypton? Why did it take Clark years before his powers manifested, but Zod had only been exposed about an hour and he was almost as strong as Superman with all his powers?

[Koete]

Then Superman should have snapped his neck before thousands of people died, if that's the kind of logic we're operating at.

[Aaron Robinson]

Anyone complaining about how he killed Zod doesn't understand Superman at all.

Including Mark Waid?

[JackFetch]

He will do what it takes to stop someone trying to incinerate a family of people in cold blood. Breaking his neck was really the only choice he had at the moment, and he chose to do it.

I'm sorry it's not throwing a powerless Zod down a glacier rift like in Superman II. That was not what he would have done.

Then Superman should have snapped his neck before thousands of people died, if that's the kind of logic we're operating at.

Most of the fighting wasn't against Zod. He was fighting a bunch of people that were as strong as him, and it was his first fight. You think he thought anything out?

Including Mark Waid?

He's being a whiny baby. "Oh, that's not how I would do it". You didn't write it, shut up.