Episode 325

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It's been a long seven months, but Ian, James and Mike are back to continue their Dark Knight Discussions! Up for review today is the first of two Joel Schumacher films: Batman Forever. How will it stack up against the Tim Burton entries, what sexual innuendoes will accidentally spill out of the mouths of the hosts, and why does Mike keep bringing up male anatomy? [ 2:49:18 || 77.7 MB ]

The above is from: http://www.earth-2.net/theshow/episodes/e2ts_325.mp3

[SuaveStar]

It's aboot damn time eh.

[SkylerQ91]

I've been excited for and dreading this episode since the Batman '89 show and let me say you did not disappoint. This is my favourite of the 89-97 series. I remember watching the VHS over and over again and loving it. I was almost or just 4 at that time it was released so I have know idea when I watched it for the first time. I do know that when the tape for Batman & Robin came out two years later at 5 or 6 I was sick with a fever or something and although I thought it was OK I wanted to watch B:TAS or Forever instead. At the time I thought my fever was what ruined B&R for me but then I saw it again, but I digress.

I was all ready for this show with my late lunch and by the end normal timed dinner along with one of the Batman Forever glass McDonald's mugs (which I got two of four of at antique shop last year while listening to WFP) and I could’t have had more fun listening but a few things that came up through the recording that i’d like to comment on....

1) I never never NEVER needed to hear James begging ‘Fuck me, Fuck Me, Fuck me!’

2) "Caffeine will kill ‘ya!" is definitely a good quip.

3) Batman in the courtroom- funniest visualisation I’ve had in a long time.

4) Ian: “Ah. ..... I was saying goodbye” made me laugh so much I did something normally reserved for silly kids shows/cartoons....and while I don’t feel right saying it even though its earth-2 and alot of things get said here... milk+laughter=??? I’m just glad it wasn’t the cherry soda I had earlier.

5) Mike..... Dick.....*sigh*....

6) Debi Mazar who plays Spice was on a season of LA Law but is likely best know for playing the foul mouthed publicist, Shauna on HBO’s show Entourage OR families may know her as the villain of Beethoven's 2nd.

7) Mike, I believe that with Riddler’s scheme, the Box was only in Gotham as a test market. Normally new Home entertainment tech (DVD, Self Destructing DVD, Home polarized 3D, Blu-Ray ect.) start in only 1-10 cities to see how it may do before going nationwide.

8) Bob Kane died in ’98... Just long enough to have seen Batman & Robin.

9) Val Kilmer was Bob Kane’s favourite Batman/Bruce Wayne and personally of the three of the nineties I would tend to agree. But I feel there was more Bruce there than apparently anybody else does. At least it’s not Clooney who was never really Batman just his silly Bruce in the suit.

10) The Joker was my least favorite part of this film as like you've said he was not portrayed all like himself. The worst part is Tommy Lee Jones could have done Harvey well if he were more like the kind of person he is in other films. The reserved Tommy Lee Jones you always see in films and interviews instead of Tommy Lee pretending to be Robin Williams.

11) You missed my other big problem with the film... the one word line.... “Joygasm”.

12) I personally think Riddler works in this film but I feel he is a character that much like the Bat himself is hard to get wrong, The Batman notwithstanding. I think maniacal or bouncy it works.

13) I’m very glad that Mike & Ian enjoyed the film and I’m sorry James did not.

I feel the film had a lot of great acting, eye candy (O'donnell and Kidman back in the day) , humor and just all around fun that is not in any other bat film. Nolan’s films may be masterpieces of the comic book genre and vastly superior films but not exactly well described as fun, I can’t wait for you all to tear Batman & Robin a new one. Thank you so much for this episode and this great mini-series! :happy:

-Skyler

[Donomark]

I was hoping you guys'd view this one in a fair light and not just write it off for the neon flash and Two-Face portrayal. Awesome review.

[SuaveStar]

I'm about a third of the way in.

Favourite moments:

The Dick jokes,

Ian's stereotypes.

The fact Alfred and Bruce have done this before, I never thought of that and it is fucking genius.

[George W.]

Nicole Kidman's uncredited stunt double was a woman named Dana Hee. Her other work includes Demolition Man, The Shadow, and was Mileena in the Tranquil Tirades epic, Mortal Kombat: Annihilation.

[James D.]

Nicole Kidman's uncredited stunt double was a woman named Dana Hee. Her other work includes Demolition Man, The Shadow, and was Mileena in the Tranquil Tirades epic, Mortal Kombat: Annihilation.

[SuaveStar]

Sad you didn't mention my favourite bit.

During the crime spree, The riddler and Two Face are in a car, Riddler is counting the cash, two face is driving and is wearing diamond earrings and the riddler has a tiara on.

Good review, though sad you didn't call back to Bruce giving Dick a big fuck you, when he kills Two Face from earlier when he says "I'll show you" and killing his enemy.

Also, you noticed how they mixed all three Robins together here?

Dick's background, Jason's hatred of Two Face and Tim's detective skills and ability to work out who Batman is.

[Stavros]

I don't get why The Cable Guy gets a bad rap, its a good film.

Mostly I like Forever for Carey. He's insane and funny throughout and whilst objectively its not a great characterisation its still great fun to watch.

[Guest DCAUFan1051]

I'm at the point where Ian points out that Chase created the Riddler... good point. Where's the poll? lol

[Molly]

Ian's line about how Bruce shouldn't be asking Alfred for dating advice had me rolling.

[Sn4tcH]

I don't get why The Cable Guy gets a bad rap, its a good film.

It's because we were all 12 years old when we saw, and couldn't quite wrap our heads around the idea of "Dark Comedy" and Jim Carrey being a true villain. I hated it as a kid, and I love it now.

Anyway, I have not watched Batman Forever in years, but back when I first saw it, it had to be my favorite movie of all time. I watched it an abnormal amount, and it came out at a perfect time where my Batman fandom was at an all time high thanks to BTAS. Not to mention Jim Carrey was in it.

But of course, time goes on, feelings and tastes change, but I've always been torn about Batman Forever. Batman 89 and Batman Returns happened before I was "aware" enough to really enjoy movies that weren't animated. Jim Carrey was THE man at the time, but I can't stand Ace Ventura or The Mask anymore. Though now I think Cable Guy is great and Dumb And Dumber is revered and quoted on a Holy Grail level from people of my generation.

My feelings about the four 90's Batman is that every one of them are bad. Just different levels of bad. In the end I'm sorry to say, I can't quite get over the campiness of the Schumacher films, and I have to put them below the Burton films. If you can say anything good about all 4 films are that they are visually appealing, and I prefer Burtons aesthetics way more than Schumachers. But do not be mistaken, I genuinely hate all 4 movies, and this feels like choosing which of the four craps put in front of me smells the best.

[grahamvidger]

Why has Bruce Wayne had glasses in these Batman movies? I don't know of any other Batman adaptations where Bruce Wayne has glasses.

[SuaveStar]

Because they want people to think he's smart.

[Missy]

These movies are all about action, with very little time left to examine the scientist and detective sides of Batman. This leaves the average moviegoer believing that Batman is all about the costume, gadgets, and punches. So, I guess, in a lazy way to show that he's educated, they gave Bruce Wayne glasses.

[slothian]

My feelings about the four 90's Batman is that every one of them are bad. Just different levels of bad. In the end I'm sorry to say, I can't quite get over the campiness of the Schumacher films, and I have to put them below the Burton films. If you can say anything good about all 4 films are that they are visually appealing, and I prefer Burtons aesthetics way more than Schumachers. But do not be mistaken, I genuinely hate all 4 movies, and this feels like choosing which of the four craps put in front of me smells the best.

"Hate" is a bit of a strong word, but I know what you mean. I don't think any of the 4 films hold up with time, which is the problem with the original Bat-movie franchise. Of course Batman & Robin never held up to begin with, but the other 3 films haven't aged all that well.

Tonight, I'm taking my microphone behind the back wall of Fort Wilson and putting a bullet in it. Then I'm buying a new one.

[James D.]

The whole exchange with Mike telling us we were fired was maybe my favorite part of the recording.

[slothian]

The whole exchange with Mike telling us we were fired was maybe my favorite part of the recording.

And to think, we merely implied that he had a unique insight into potential male upskirt! I maintain that "Dick perks up" is pretty much the best slip I've heard on an Earth-2 podcast!

EDIT: Also, I may have sounded a mite derisory at the end saying the credits roll over some U2/Seal music, but I genuinely love both tracks used in the film (and thus this episode). Bearing in mind the previous form of Prince (Batman) and then R Kelly (Batman & Robin), it all helped add towards why I loved this film as a young'un.

[Mr Mockery]

Oh dear sweet lord, That banner's now loose on another forum? Remind me to kill the hell out of Matt.

I have very fond memories of Batman Forever. The summer of 1995 was a very good year to be a 17 year old. The weather was good, I had a job that ended up giving me lots of free time to enjoy it and the Brit pop revolution was in full swing with the great Blur Vs Oasis feud. Batman Forever was THE movie to see that summer so whenever I watch it now it has very positive associations for me.

Yes they get Two-Face completely wrong, Nicole Kidman is almost completely superfluous, the vehicles suck and everything glows in the dark but dammit it still makes me happy to watch it.

[slothian]

And that's why I'm a Probie!

[Donomark]

Except for Batman and Robin, Bruce Wayne wore glasses in the first three Batman films.

[grahamvidger]

All these 90s Bat films seem like they were made to be kind of like James Bond, but they aren't because James Bond is a million times better. I mean they basically were made every 2 or 3 years, and they changed the role for Batman a few times. This decade of Batman films that are all in the same, but debatable, continuity didn't do good enough to be like the James Bond franchise though.

[slothian]

All these 90s Bat films seem like they were made to be kind of like James Bond, but they aren't because James Bond is a million times better. I mean they basically were made every 2 or 3 years, and they changed the role for Batman a few times. This decade of Batman films that are all in the same, but debatable, continuity didn't do good enough to be like the James Bond franchise though.

I don't know, there are some pretty awful Bond films out there and it's pretty hard to compare the two franchises. One is spy/action franchise that has been engrained on a national conscious since the 1960s (admittedly, that nation being Britain), whilst the other is a comic book franchise being marketed towards a younger audience to maximise box office and merchandising revenues.

I sort of see what you mean, in that both have changed main characters without it impacting on an overall continuity (and both rebooted their shit after their previous instalments got too bloated/rubbish), but it's not neccessarily a case of Bond being better than Batman, it's just more of an established film franchise. Case in point, the Bond producers have already announced who's writing the next Bond film whilst Batman on film is paranoid that Christopher Nolan won't return for a third take on Batman.

[Stavros]

Why has Bruce Wayne had glasses in these Batman movies? I don't know of any other Batman adaptations where Bruce Wayne has glasses.

Maybe he's secretly Superman.

[Darque Edge]

Want to know why the car's fin changed?

Continuity error. They wanted to go with the double-fin, but it flip-flopped about like John Kerry (Woot for dated references I don't believe), so they redesigned it and used it for the rest of the movie. They just forgot/didn't bother to change it.

What annoys me about this movie is how cheap it looks. Burton's films may have dated, but dammnit, they looked good at times. I also think blaming Burton for all of Schumacer's excesses is unfair - this is the start of the serious rot that leads to 'Batman and Robin', and that's sheer Schumacer.

Actually, what really annoys me is that 'comedy' guard in the opening scene. Possibly the worst written character in movie history. 'It's a traa-aap!' 'Hey! That's my hee-aaring aaaid!'. Christ, he's grating.