Guest Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 You are tearing me apart, DC! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dread Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 David Finch doesn't care about black people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc20willsave Posted August 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Now, let's be nice to Finch. He probably started on this cover seven months ago and was about to start on Cyborg, right behind Wonder Woman, when he was informed that he in fact had to have the cover out the same time as the issue. Suddenly realizing, shit, I can't be five months behind with my sub-par product, he figured no one would notice Cyborg missing as long as Wonder Woman wasn't wearing pants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Now, let's be nice to Finch. He probably started on this cover seven months ago and was about to start on Cyborg, right behind Wonder Woman, when he was informed that he in fact had to have the cover out the same time as the issue. Suddenly realizing, shit, I can't be five months behind with my sub-par product, he figured no one would notice Cyborg missing as long as Wonder Woman wasn't wearing pants. Post of the Day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuaveStar Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Details On Flashpoint #5 And Justice League #1 Midnight Openings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Now that they've given Wonder Woman her panties back, I realize I prefer her in pants. Simply put, I can't take the character seriously when I see her dressed like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 I've been saying this for YEARS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 I think it took the redesign and the images from the failed TV show for me to change my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 I have NEVER liked Wonder Woman's classic costume. Not ever. It looks ridiculous. Putting her in pants was, I thought, extremely sensible. If you ever see an actual human person in a Wonder Woman costume, you can be forgiven for thinking you are about to watch a sex act occur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Exactly. When I see the cover on the left, I think she's a superhero. When I see the one on the right, I think, "How soon 'til the orgy?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightWing Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Exactly. When I see the cover on the left, I think she's a superhero. When I see the one on the right, I think, "How soon 'til the orgy?" When I see the picture on the right, I think she's a superhero. When I see the one on the left, I think "who's that random normal chick and why is she with the Justice League?" A lot of it may have to with the fact that I've gotten used to WW's classic costume, but I think it's also that the pants look was just not very visually dynamic. Not a lot of contrasts there. They could probably have a pants look that worked. Heck, that second version of the TV costume we saw looked decent, with the stars down the side and the red boots. But the one they had her in in the earlier art just looked beyond boring. Until they come up with a more "appropriate" design for Diana, I'm more than fine with her keeping the same costume she's had since the 40s. I will admit, though, the classic look does look pretty bad in that cover. Something about the way Jim Lee drew her torso so tiny makes it look ridiculous. Other artists who use different proportions make it work better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koete Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 DC rounds up quotes about the DC reboot by its creators, including "What we are doing right now,” said DiDio, “is fighting for the soul of comics.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 "What we are doing right now,” said DiDio, “is fighting for the soul of comics.” Uh... okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 "What we are doing right now,” said DiDio, “is fighting for the soul of comics our jobs.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dread Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 "What we are doing right now,” said DiDio, “is fucking crazy.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 I absolutely believe that they're fighting for the soul of comics. The problem is that the "soul" they're referring to is this business model, the one that encourages the creation of safe, repetitive frameworks for the purpose of storytelling that's utterly gutless and inconsequential. I don't care how many stars are covering Wonder Woman's ass. Half of the people that do care aren't buying Wonder Woman anyway. Put Superman in a potato sack for all I care, as long as he's written in a way that doesn't insult my intelligence, or worse, like those Lois pages, make me physically ill. People are not defined by the pants they wear, or their martial status. If I meet a girl tomorrow and get married, I don't stop being Damien. I may approach certain things differently with her well-being in mind, but I'd still be me. I'd still know mountains of absolutely worthless video game knowledge and I'd still post on here in the middle of the night because I can't sleep. 'But I'm not an iconic character', is the eventual response. No one is buying a t-shirt with my symbol on it. Funny thing about icons, though. By sheer nature of the iconic status, you can do pretty much anything you want with them. Batman t-shirts don't sell less because he's fighting Killer Croc that month instead of the Joker. People very often buy this iconic merchandise without ever bothering with the source material. The Wonder Woman trademark makes a fuckload more money than any of her comics do. This isn't about icons or telling exciting stories. This is about making their jobs easier in the short term. They are, for lack of a better word, cheating. Hey, people cheat all the time. Life isn't fair. But when people cheat art, I get more offended for some reason. Hell, for all that Johns is fucking up, he's still done wonders for Green Lantern, building a universe that I loved to read about, and despite the fact that pretty much nothing is being changed there, I'm dropping all of the books. Everything. I'm done with Marvel. I'm done with DC. No, I'm not declaring this the "death" of comics. The medium will go on and on spinning its wheels like this forever. In my lifetime, Wonder Woman will go through 87 more costume changes and origin stories that never stick. Clark and Lois will get married and erased at least twice more. And they'll depend on the nucleus of their consumer base to always be there to take it. But they won't always be there. I know. I left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuaveStar Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Dubs hit that right on the head. You know what I'm slightly confused by? People saying DC needs to hire more female creators. My response is simple, don't hire female creators, or male creators, hire people who are actually good at their jobs and can sell comics. Louise Simonson was a great comics writer in the 80's, and she was a woman. Should most people give a shit? No. She's just a great writer. I won't be buying a book because the writer is male (For example Scott Lobdell) gay (Marc Andreyeko) or bisexual (Gail Simone) or a woman (Devin Grayson) if the person writing the comics is a good writer, and I enjoy their comics, then I'll read their work, or make time to look at their stuff in the comic shop, and get a trade of the book down the line. It's like Batwoman, I don't think she sold because she was a lesbian character. I think she sold because Greg Rucka's writing was solid and the JHW III art was gorgeous. The fact that she was a lesbian was a part of the character and will make for some interesting takes on storylines. But maybe this is just me, and I'm probably coming across as a sexist saying DC should just randomly hire any woman who wants to be a comics writer, regardless of if they can write good comics or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightWing Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 You know what I'm slightly confused by? People saying DC needs to hire more female creators. My response is simple, don't hire female creators, or male creators, hire people who are actually good at their jobs and can sell comics. That kind of non-ridiculous thinking doesn't fly on the interwebs. DC pointed that they hired based on talent, not gender, but then people took that as an insult to every single female comic writer or artist that wasn't hired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venneh Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 And now, kids, time for a TLDR on what its like to be a chick in comics. Sit down, grab a cookie or something, and please note that this is just my experience, and is not universal. So, the first time I walked into my LCS, I walked out without getting something, and almost didn't come back. Once inside, I had every guy in the shop staring at me like I was a unicorn. The manager came up to me only after he'd talked to every other guy twice, and shoved some Power Girl and Supergirl comics in my face and asked me if I wanted to buy 'em, cause they had chicks in 'em. On both covers, the women were kinda cheesecakish (then again, PG, this is a given), with either huge tits or asses, costumes that showed that off, and poses that really emphasized that. I turned him down politely, and between the stares, ended up leaving without buying anything. The next time I came in was just after FCBD, with a guy friend of mine. The manager then commented on how cute it was that he was trying to get his girlfriend into comics. It took me half a year of buying Deadpool, GLC, etc to get him to see me as something other than a pair of tits. Does this happen to every chick who goes into a comic book store? Oh hell no, but it's still fairly prevalent. Whenever I go into a new store, I wonder whether or not I'll be treated like a customer or like a novel pair of tits. And some days, it's just really damn awkward looking at lady comic characters. Take the reboot, for instance. I can't think of one woman character outside of maybe in Demon Knights and the Batladies that either doesn't have their tits about to fall out of the top they're poured into, or doesn't have their panties saying hi to the world. It just makes you wonder whether or not the people in charge view you as an actual demographic or just as eye candy. And there are less lady characters in the DCnu that I've seen to this point. I'm sure they're waiting to come out of the woodwork, but it's still disappointing. On the subject of lady creators, there are a lot of folks who buy Simone bc she's bi, or Devin bc she's a lady. Do I think that's the way they should hire? No, make sure they have talent. But Christ, take someone like my friend, who you've been saying you want her as an artist for the last two years, but shes not been published, so you won't take her. I'm sure there's plenty more out there like her. It is discouraging to see women go from 12% to 1% of DCs creative. At least hire some lady consulters on the costumes for the chicks so they don't look so slutty, or so you can figure out how to hold onto the demographic. TLDR I both agree and disagree with you Austen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightWing Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 That really does sound terrible, Hannnah. I'm sorry you had/have to deal with that. At my LCS, that kind of thing is entirely unheard-of. There's at least two girls who work there, and no one would ever even think about treating female customers any different from male ones. Also, talking to those female employees/customers, they don't seem to give a crap whether the comic creators are female; they just want to read good comics, same as everybody else. I think it'd be great if they had more female creators in the DCnU, but if they were honestly weighing all the options and decided that specific people would be best for certain books, I don't think it's a problem. Switching around creative teams for the sake of statistical political correctness doesn't sound like a great idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 So, because of one LCS owner, DC has to hire more female writers? I'm not trying to underplay your experience, Hannah, but if people, like Simone, don't produce quality work, they shouldn't be hired. She shouldn't hold onto a job, just because of her genitals. There are plenty of female creators that are talented, and do deserve more work, but you know what? There are plenty of talented male creators that can't catch a break either. Giving someone a job based on gender is just as sexist as denying them the job for the same reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venneh Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Dude, that's not what I'm saying. Would I love to see more lady talent? Yea, but make sure they have just that - talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Well, then I have no idea what you were saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venneh Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 On the subject of lady creators, there are a lot of folks who buy Simone bc she's bi, or Devin bc she's a lady. Do I think that's the way they should hire? No, make sure they have talent. But Christ, take someone like my friend, who you've been saying you want her as an artist for the last two years, but shes not been published, so you won't take her. I'm sure there's plenty more out there like her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Yeah, breaking into any creative medium is hard. I fail to see the connection to the DC reboot, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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