Stavros Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 Yeah, the death of Batman, the merging of worlds to fight some great reality-threatening foe, the modern continuity had at that point roughly advanced to where Earth-2 was when it ended. It was a better swan song than this, which is just confusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuaveStar Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 Yeah, cause you'd sort of expect an event called Final Crisis, to be the actual fucking end to something. It was the end of the Fourth World and the dawn of the Fifth World. And the end of the Monitors. I stand corrected. I still don't understand how Geoff Johns is going to able to solve the problem of the Flashpoint Universe, defeat The Reverse Flash, fix the time line, and justify DCnU all in the space of a single comic. It just seems to big a task, considering how slow the previous issues of Flashpoint have been. I'm not saying he can't make it work, and it won't be fantastic, just right now, I'm a bit pessimistic about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 If I recall, previously Barry has said he can't go back in time to change / fix things because, for whatever reason, when he does things go horribly wrong. My guess is that he'll try to undo whatever it is Reverse Flash has done, which will erase not only Flashpoint, but also the DCU, creating the DCnU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightWing Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 If I recall, previously Barry has said he can't go back in time to change / fix things because, for whatever reason, when he does things go horribly wrong. My guess is that he'll try to undo whatever it is Reverse Flash has done, which will erase not only Flashpoint, but also the DCU, creating the DCnU. They set that up over the last issue or two. Thomas-Batman asks Barry why he can't change history like Thawne can; Barry says that it's extremely difficult (like swimming upstream) and that it's dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc20willsave Posted August 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 I feel almost like DC should have looked at the past for the DCnU. After both Crisis on Infinite Earths and Infinite Crisis, DC released some version of History of the DC Universe. It helped clarify where continuity had changed and what had stayed the same as well as being an entertaining read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightWing Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 At SDCC, they said they've plotted out the entire history of the new DCU in detail, and that they'll reveal it all once the various storylines have had their chance to do the reveals themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 And at one point, didn't they also say they knew most of the 52 Earths, and they'd be reveled eventually. Bu that didn't happen. Face it, it's a line they fed the crowd to appease them. "Yeah, we know what we're doing... even though we clearly only implemented this three months ago." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightWing Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 I can't remember it word-for-word, but they basically said that Eddie Berganza had pieced together an actual timeline document. And they actually have revealed the majority of the 52 universes. They directly addressed the question about "when did they start the reboot" at SDCC. They said that they'd had the ideas floating around for years, but only actually started seriously working on them at the beginning of this year. So, yeah, the reboot is a very young idea, but it's also not quite as suddenly thrown-together as some have thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 Serious question, Knightwing, and I say this as a die hard DC fan boy: How much is DC paying you, and where can I sign up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 Thanks for the link. As for when the reboot was conceived and initiated, I have no doubt that DiDio's been thinking about it for a while now. However, if you look at how quickly recent storylines had to wrap up and the rotation of artists and inkers on the books three issues in, it becomes clear that the creative staff wasn't made aware of the reboot until the last possible moment. Some were told sooner than others, I'll grant you that. But the fact remains, the creators were not given enough time to flesh out these retooled characters and their plots. If you think I'm pulling this from my ass, don't. Listen to Kelly Sue DeConnick's recent interview on Word Balloon. She said DC contacted her to work on a project, but they wanted her pitch and first script (if I recall) within two days. So she turned them down. Ken Lashley has noted that DC switched writers on The Blackhawks after artwork was already completed, and since that put him further behind schedule, he left the project. This info is out there. The DC executives and editors rushed this through, and that's the biggest sin here. The reboot itself I'm fine with. Hell, I'm excited to see how the Wildstorm characters interact with the DC characters now that they share a universe. I want to see familiar characters in an unfamiliar / tweaked universe. However, starting a new universe with inconsistent, rushed art as well as quickly plotted scripts, that's going to show in the work and it will turn a lot of people off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightWing Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 Serious question, Knightwing, and I say this as a die hard DC fan boy: How much is DC paying you, and where can I sign up? I think I'm an unpaid intern that no one at DC is actually aware exists or is working for them. As for when the reboot was conceived and initiated, I have no doubt that DiDio's been thinking about it for a while now. However, if you look at how quickly recent storylines had to wrap up and the rotation of artists and inkers on the books three issues in, it becomes clear that the creative staff wasn't made aware of the reboot until the last possible moment. Some were told sooner than others, I'll grant you that. But the fact remains, the creators were not given enough time to flesh out these retooled characters and their plots. Yeah, that part is true. The editors and higher-ups at DC were well aware of the reboot way in advance, but the majority of writers and artists weren't. So the greater concepts are solid, but everything else will probably be a little shaky. I'd be upset about that, but the fact that I'm actually interested to read anything beyond a Batman- or Green Lantern-branded book is good enough for me at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 The editors and higher-ups at DC were well aware of the reboot way in advance, but the majority of writers and artists weren't. If twitter feeds are anything to go by (I'm at work or I'd link), there were writers and artists who found out about the reboot when we, the public, did. I'm not against the idea of the reboot at all; in fact, it truly might give comics the shot in the arm it sorely needs, but this has been a very, very, very poor way of handling things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prez Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 Serious question, Knightwing, and I say this as a die hard DC fan boy: How much is DC paying you, and where can I sign up? Honestly, I've been wanting to ask him this same question for months. I'm glad you asked. People like you more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightWing Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 Sometimes I wonder if everyone else is paid by Marvel to hate on DC ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuaveStar Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 The editors and higher-ups at DC were well aware of the reboot way in advance, but the majority of writers and artists weren't. If twitter feeds are anything to go by (I'm at work or I'd link), there were writers and artists who found out about the reboot when we, the public, did. I'm not against the idea of the reboot at all; in fact, it truly might give comics the shot in the arm it sorely needs, but this has been a very, very, very poor way of handling things. To be fair (and I agree, this reboot has been handled poorly so far, in the planning/advertising stage) DC had to hedge their bets with creators. All it takes is one loose lipped creator to say "Oh, and I'm working on a new series for DC, when they reboot the line." or something similar and all the buzz for the move would have been out of the window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 Sometimes I wonder if everyone else is paid by Marvel to hate on DC ideas. I hate both. I'm broke as hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuaveStar Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 So, the villain that brings the Justice League together for the first time is: Darkseid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Talk about blowing your fuckin' load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightWing Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Hmm. On one hand, Darkseid is basically the DC universe's ultimate "epic villain," so it makes sense. It also echoes the first major post-Crisis crossover event, Legends, which also had Apokolips as the threat. On the other hand, Darkseid was just used in Final Crisis, so doing another story with him so soon is a bit odd. Definitely a wait-and-see situation here. It'll all depend on what their approach is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koete Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 All 52 logos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dread Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Sometimes I wonder if everyone else is paid by Marvel to hate on DC ideas. Actually, as far as site demographics go, I think that the place used to be populated more by DC fans who disliked Marvel. Now it appears to have a lot of DC fans pissed off at DC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 I like that the Superman family logos have a uniformity. Same with the Lantern and League books. It's a shame they couldn't do the same for the Bat books. Sure, there's a bat behind each one, but they don't feel like a grouping. It's nice to see the old Resurrection Man logo, and I like what they're doing with Mister Terrific's. The only one that makes me outright cringe is the one for Catwoman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Sometimes I wonder if everyone else is paid by Marvel to hate on DC ideas. The site started out very pro-Marvel, then it shifted to pro-DC before finding a balance. Now though, Des is right; I don't think anyone here is anti-DC because of the reboot; they're mad at DC because of how poorly it's seemingly being handled. And that's going to continue, I assume, for a few issues into each series. That said, right away you'll probably see people be appeased by the Green Lantern comics, All-Star Western, Swamp Thing, Detective Comics, Demon Knights, Animal Man, and a few other surprises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 I just showed the logos to Shana, and, to varying degrees, she likes: Batgirl, Batman, Nightwing, Catwoman, Suicide Squad, and Swamp Thing. I think Swamp Thing was her favorite. She greatly disliked The Blackhawks ("That belongs on the jerseys of a minor league hockey team."), OMAC ("Is that an 'O' or a 'Q?'"), Mister Terrific ("Mister Terrific isn't so terrific."), and Blue Beetle ("Is that a logo for a British comedy?"). Other comments include: "Frankenstein: Agent of SHADE! What the... UGH! The monster is rolling over in his grave." Later on, upon seeing it once more, she said, "I'm not going to touch that one again." Shana loves the novel, so the whole idea of this one threw her for a loop. "Resurrection Man just sounds dumb." Me: ----> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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