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JackFetch

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Apparently it might be based off of Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns, from what io9 said in its panel coverage (will link once not on a bus). I am... Not encouraged if that's the case.

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Basically that means they are going to fight. Probably nearer the beginning before they team up. Which is to be expected. I'm far more excited for this than anything Marvel's announced.

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Agreed. It's the freshest offering anyone has coming up. Although I'm giving Cap and Thor points for their sequels moving in different directions to their first films. We're not getting stuck in the Iron Man formula with those ones.

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GotG sounds promising. CA 2 has a lot to live up to. Thor 2 looks like the Thor movie I wish the first one was, but it might be too late for that. We'll see. But naming Avengers 2 after a Bendis storyline is basically killing my hopes execution-style.

Superman/Batman. Seriously, just typing that in a movie thread as if it's something that might happen in my lifetime is pretty damned cool.

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Superman/Batman. Seriously, just typing that in a movie thread as if it's something that might happen in my lifetime is pretty damned cool.

Stop saying things I wholeheartedly agree with. It's freaking me out.

You can see the actual announcement here:

http://youtu.be/K-iGPHD1RBE

Snyder makes it clear that they're not adapting TDKR:

"He's gonna read you a little thing, and... some of you will recognize it, and it's not... we're not adapting that thing, but it is the thing that will help tell that story."

Snyder is known for not being a wordsmith, but it seems like what he meant was that they used the quote from TDKR to get the fans excited, and they might reference it for the movie to some extent.

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Superman/Batman. Seriously, just typing that in a movie thread as if it's something that might happen in my lifetime is pretty damned cool.

This is Warner and DC. They'll find a way to screw it up.

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It isn't as though EVERY WB/DC film of the past 10 years has been terrible, in the same way that all Marvel films in that period haven't been utter triumphs. So let's not be a Negative Nigel, shall we?

A World's Finest movie is a much more logical step than jumping straight into bed with a JLA movie.

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Agreeing with Des and Ian here. We have all three Dark Knight films, Red, A History of Violence (Technically New Line but WB owns them), V For Vendetta, Stardust, Watchmen, The Losers, Man of Steel, Constantine, and Stardust. All of those have been critical and/or financial successes. Hell, of the ones I didn't list from the last ten years, Green Lantern still earned back what it cost. That pretty much leaves The Spirit, Catwoman, and Jonah Hex. So, I'd say Batman/Superman or whatever they're going to call it has some good chances.

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On the one hand, yes those have worked, for the given value of worked. I mean, It's not like The Losers or Constantine got sequels. If it were just DC doing this I think they'd struggle, but Nolan's got a steady hand and is practised in delivering something a wide audience wants, so this isn't going to fall on it's face. On the other hand I think that Avengers 2 has a far better shot at being both a good film and monstrously profitable because Joss Whedon is a better scriptwriter than Goyer, a better director than Snyder and Tony Stark is a bigger deal than Batman or Superman when it's RDJ playing him.

Basically DC is like a race car team that rebuilds it's car from scratch between every race because they're so desperate to win the next one, where Marvel started with the aim of winning the whole season and with that long view have built a car that's totally reliable and just works.

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It's a shame that they have to make this instead of a Flash or Wonder Woman movie. Green Lantern must have scared them away from doing other hero movies besides the big two.

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The last semi-official news (as in, people at WB have been talking but there's no announcement) is that Flash, Wonder Woman, and JLA are all in the script phase. Wonder Woman is apparently the one that's giving them the most trouble, and JLA is on the back burner until later.

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On the other hand I think that Avengers 2 has a far better shot at being both a good film and monstrously profitable because Joss Whedon is a better scriptwriter than Goyer,

Agreed.

a better director than Snyder

Arguable.

and Tony Stark is a bigger deal than Batman or Superman when it's RDJ playing him.

Say what now? Even without fanboy bias - not that I'm accusing you of that (although you did type RDJ...) - both The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises has outgrossed every Iron Man film. Don't get me wrong, Downey Jr. has raised Iron Man's stock monumentally, but to claim he's now a bigger superhero than Batman or Superman is a bit wide of the mark.

Basically DC is like a race car team that rebuilds it's car from scratch between every race because they're so desperate to win the next one, where Marvel started with the aim of winning the whole season and with that long view have built a car that's totally reliable and just works.

I'd argue that calling Iron Man 2 & 3 films that are totally reliable and that just work is also somewhat hyperbolic.

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Taken from Box Office Mojo's listings of the all time highest grossing movies.

RDJ Iron Man Box office record-

#3- Avengers $1511.8 million

#5- Iron Man 3 $1211.6 million

#72- Iron Man 2 $623.9 million

#86- Iron Man $585.2 million

Nolan/Bale Batman films

#9 Dark Knight Rises $1084.4 million

#16 The Dark Knight $1004.6 million

#193 Batman Begins $374.2

So yeah, Robert Downey Jr's Tony Stark is definitely bigger than Superman and arguably bigger than Batman. His solo film gross is comparable ($2420.7 million to Batmans $2463.2) but when you throw Avengers in on top he's the clear winner.

When I say the Marvel machine works I mean overall. They can handle a sub-par movie because they have plans and diversity. Hulk crashes and burns? No matter, Iron Man hits a home run. Iron Man 2 sub-par? Captain America and Thor do respectable box office and lay the ground for the Avengers. And regardless of any problems I have with Iron Man 3 (and I do) that box office is nothing to sniff at.

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When I say the Marvel machine works I mean overall. They can handle a sub-par movie because they have plans and diversity. Hulk crashes and burns? No matter, Iron Man hits a home run. Iron Man 2 sub-par? Captain America and Thor do respectable box office and lay the ground for the Avengers. And regardless of any problems I have with Iron Man 3 (and I do) that box office is nothing to sniff at.

Unless the box office is cocaine and you like to sniff that stuff, at which point, you go right ahead, and sniff all the box office you can handle.

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Taken from Box Office Mojo's listings of the all time highest grossing movies.

RDJ Iron Man Box office record-

#3- Avengers $1511.8 million

#5- Iron Man 3 $1211.6 million

#72- Iron Man 2 $623.9 million

#86- Iron Man $585.2 million

Nolan/Bale Batman films

#9 Dark Knight Rises $1084.4 million

#16 The Dark Knight $1004.6 million

#193 Batman Begins $374.2

So yeah, Robert Downey Jr's Tony Stark is bigger than Superman and arguably bigger than Batman.

1) To start with, The Avengers is EVERY Marvel Studios character together. I wanted sole Iron Man films to judge Robert John Downey Junior's carrying ability. I'll take the point that he was the central Avenger, but the film wasn't being carried on his shoulders.

2) Batman Begins was before Iron Man appeared on screen, so it doesn't seem directly comparable. I was pitting the two post-Iron Man Bat-films against the Iron Man trilogy.

3) The Box Office Mojo page I have bookmarked looks at domestic grosses, as that's the figure that producers listen to the most. In the sense that the domestic gross is what the film should use to recoup its budget and advertising whilst the worldwide box office is the pure profit. So whilst I don't dispute Iron Man 3 ultimately outgrossed the films I cited, that wasn't the page I was looking at originally.

Selective stats aside, I'll give you that Iron Man today is a bigger deal cinematically than Superman, but Nolan's Bat trilogy remains the CBM trilogy to beat (even considering TDKR's weaknesses).

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Avengers was marketed around RDJ, he's the highest paid biggest actor in the film.

Why is Batman Begins not part of this? I don't get that. But OK, let's just go by the last two solo films by each. Batman gets 2 billion to Iron Mans 1.8. So not far apart. Plus Batman has real name villains in TDK, Joker and Two Face. You could argue that Joker bumps TDK up by himself, he was a key marketing tool, in the same way as the other Avengers were in the Avengers movie. I still say RDJ Iron Man is a bigger draw than Bales Batman.

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Batman Begins wasn't marketed as a big blockbuster the way the following Batman films and the Iron Mans (Iron Men?) were. As far as the general public was concerned, it only became a big deal in hindsight as word-of-mouth spread. Marvel, on the other hand, marketed Iron Man perfectly from day one.

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Avengers was marketed around RDJ, he's the highest paid biggest actor in the film.

"RDJ" may well have been the highest paid biggest actor. The fact remains that the film was not marketed around him; it was marketed around every Marvel Studios character coming together, hence the posters of everyone from Iron Man & Cap to Scarlet Widow and f'n Agent Coulson, whose appeal continues to escape me, but that's a different talking point. Tony Stark was the standout Avengers character, but then he had two films in the bank prior to this appearance, making him the most recognisable character of the bunch. Nevertheless, he wasn't the film's sole focus - people flocked to the film for the team-up, not a 3rd Iron Man run-out.

Why is Batman Begins not part of this? I don't get that. But OK, let's just go by the last two solo films by each. Batman gets 2 billion to Iron Mans 1.8. So not far apart. Plus Batman has real name villains in TDK, Joker and Two Face. You could argue that Joker bumps TDK up by himself, he was a key marketing tool, in the same way as the other Avengers were in the Avengers movie. I still say RDJ Iron Man is a bigger draw than Bales Batman.

1) I didn't use Batman Begins because it occurred before Iron Man was a thing. The same way I don't compare Batman Forever to Iron Man - if you want direct competition, you set the films in the same time scope.

2) Sure, the films aren't far apart. And it doesn't bother me either - I LOVE Iron Man. It deserves all the praise it gets and that it didn't make as much as TDK in no way reflects badly on it. I'm not trying to do it down; I'm just stating that the Nolan Bat-films in question did better.

3) Sure, TDK is aided by the fact the villains are The Joker and Two Face. Batman has, arguably, the greatest rogue's gallery in comics (I hear; don't read comics etc etc). And the big letdown of the Iron Man films is that his rogues gallery have never been quite up to snuff - even in Iron Man, as wonderful as Jeff Bridges is, Iron Monger came & went in 10 minutes. But even with your Avengers analogy, that's an extra 2 characters added to the mix with Bats, whilst there were 6 Avengers characters + Fury, Hill, Coulson & Loki if we're getting into villains.

By now, it's a bit moot to cry "RDJ's better than Bale" as Bale has done his time and moved on. My original point was that people do still give a damn about seeing Batman on screen, as shown by WB essentially using the character as a crutch. And there's room enough for both Marvel & DC film adaptations if the sub-genre wants to thrive - it doesn't have to be a popularity contest. It is, thanks to the intelligensia that are forum posters on IMDB, Superherohype etc., but it doesn't have to be. Hence my best friend from uni, who has since sought out my Comic Reel-lief reviews, predicting that a World's Finest will be "on balance of probabilities" awful because he likes the Marvel Studios films.

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